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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by BWF89 (talk | contribs) at 02:40, 10 May 2006 (→‎[[Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Image:Crops Kansas AST 20010624.jpg| Crop fields in Kansas]]: BWF89 Support Original). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Crop fields in Kansas

Circular crop fields in Kansas

NASA ASTER image of circular crop fields in Haskell County, Kansas from June 2001. I like the geometric patterns and it's a unique perspective on how fields look. Used in Center pivot irrigation, Ogallala Aquifer, Agriculture, Crop rotation, and Agriculture in the United States.

  • Nominate and support. - howcheng {chat} 17:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Clear, sharp, lots of detail, and very encyclopedic. SteveHopson 17:22, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Very abstract image, but gets your attention and makes you want to learn more about it. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 17:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Superb. Very interesting perspective, excellent resolution. --Pharaoh Hound 18:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, preferably unstraightened original. Great addition. Has the color saturation been increased? bcasterline t 19:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not by me. It doesn't say anything on the source page, so my assumption is no (if any modifications have been made, it usually says so). The ASTER page doesn't have any information about it either. howcheng {chat} 20:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • My guess is that it has been modified, or at least, that is not a natural representation of the colour. A quick look at Google Earth will quickly show you that there is a vast variance in the quality of the imagery. Some satellite imagery isn't even visible colour but rather based on the amount of reflectivity. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 21:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • The latter is more likely. Considering ASTER stands for "Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection Radiometer" it's probably not a natural-color image. howcheng {chat} 21:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • However, our own article on ASTER states that it takes visible spectrum images too, and since NASA makes several references to the color without any mention of it being false color, this is probably actually the real colors, and we should not presume otherwise. Night Gyr 22:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment strangely, I would actually prefer a cropped version, especially to appear on the main page. You can't actually make any detail out in that thumbnail. Perhaps by cropping it you could at least see the circles and get an idea. Two questions not answered on the image page: What orientation does the image have (is there some reason not to "straighten it" from its current ~10° slant to the left)? Also, what is the road(?) running through the image? Stevage 20:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Unfortunately, that information is not available in the source page. howcheng {chat} 20:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think that is going to help. There have been situations where I've wished that there was a way of allowing a cropped thumbnail to link directly to a full sized image but in this case, I think you just have to accept that it looks abstract and click on the thumbnail to see it at 100%. It wouldn't be any more recognisable when cropped anyhow. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 21:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - These are fascinating, particularly if you've ever used GoogleEarth to see how much of Kansas is covered by them. Really makes you think about the demand that feeding the Western world places on its environments. A quick GE of the coordinates shows that the road is Highway 56 which runs 640 miles from Springer, New Mexico to Kansas City, Missouri. --Yummifruitbat 21:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Also, there's no obvious reason for the orientation of the image as the grid of circles runs N-S/W-E with remarkable precision. --Yummifruitbat 21:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(getting horribly addicted to GoogleEarth!) - The two settlements alongside the Highway are the small towns of (lower left) Sublette and (upper right) Copeland.
So then the only possible explanations I can come up with for the tilt are (1) that's how the satellite was oriented, or (2) it was an artistic choice by the NASA person who processed the image. howcheng {chat} 22:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Straightened/cropped version
  • Edited version - I've uploaded a straightened and cropped edit as the rotated version is misleading IMO. One of the interesting features of this landscape is the meticulous geometric arrangement. --Yummifruitbat 23:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Original, Oppose edited. Straightening the image just makes it look unnatural, I think. The grid is easy to see even angled, and it feels more like reality when things haven't been messed around with just for the sake of perfect alignment. I think the rotated version is more misleading, because it implies that the satellite lines its images up perfectly with the crop grid. Night Gyr 00:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is unnatural, and the perfect alignment is part of what makes it interesting. When the fields were originally created, they were laid out on a measured North-South, West-East, 0.5- and 1-mile grid. Presenting the image at an angle suggests that they were arbitrarily oriented - isn't that a bit like drawing a map of the Americas with Canada in the bottom right hand corner? --Yummifruitbat 00:43, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's a picture, not a map, and I think we can trust our readers to know that. I've been on cross-country flights before, and seen the pattern, so I know how it runs, and it seems more natural to me for a picture of the pattern to not align perfectly, since even the satellite isn't seeing it straight on. This picture is not a map. The change is more comparable to taking a picture like the blue marble and spinning it to line up with a map--completely unnecessary, insulting to our readers' intelligence, and distorting the compositional appeal of the original. Night Gyr 03:52, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with putting "the original" on a pedestal in that way. The original rotation was totally arbitrary anyway. Why not rotate it to 45 degrees, 37 degrees, or 344? If you find the roughly 10 degrees to the left more appealing than ramrod-straight, then that's one thing. But considering 0 degrees (the apparently "true" alignment) to be "arbitrary" and the 10 degrees left to be more canonical is, well, very arbitrary indeed. Stevage 08:16, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I do find the original more appealing, and I don't like the rotation because it takes away everything about the image that distingushes it from a generic satellite photo or map. There are plenty of places out there that can show you the precise north/south grid, but I feel like showing it at an angle makes it feel less like a map and reminds you that you're looking at a photograph rather than a drawing. Night Gyr 08:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Google earth can show you the same location here Night Gyr 04:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is a generic satellite photo, but it's the subject that distinguishes it, not the 10º rotation which adds nothing to the encyclopaedic nature of the image. You may have been lucky enough to fly over this scene but the vast majority of readers/viewers will not have, nor can one assume that they will have found the circles using GoogleEarth and happen to have had the Lat/Long overlay switched on at the time. Straightening the image increases its informational content - this is supposed to be an encyclopaedia after all. Should we refrain from straightening, say, a landscape nominated for FP with the horizon tilted 10º because the photographer's tripod was lopsided? --Yummifruitbat 11:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't really add to the informational content. Why would a straightened image lead the viewer to assume that the fields themselves were straightened along a grid? Personally, I don't think I would ever make that assumption. It would need to be stated somewhere (the caption, for example), which would be equally necessary for both versions. Fitting to a grid is different than leveling a horizon. bcasterline t 12:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's a good idea to include that information in the caption. Perhaps my choice of phrasing was poor above - straightening it doesn't really increase its informational content, but IMO rotating it by an arbitrary 10º reduces the information conveyed because then the rotation becomes a feature of the image, even though it is of no real relevance to the content. Lots of images (eg. of buildings) are either opposed on FPC or edited, because walls aren't perfectly vertical or exhibit perspective distortion. It strikes me as a case of double standards, then, to say that rotating it to align a clear North-South grid with North is "insulting to our readers' intelligence". --Yummifruitbat 13:47, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe there is a double-standard (although I don't myself oppose the straightened version). But nature shots, except where there is a visible horizon, aren't always straightened with relation to anything in the picture -- see Image:Tulip - floriade canberra.jpg below, for example. The focus of this image is the crop fields, not the gridding of Kansas. And, as a matter of personal preference, I find them more interesting when not perfectly aligned in a square. bcasterline t 14:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well put, I can see your point. From a purely aesthetic point of view I quite like the angled shot, but I personally think the straightened one is more encyclopaedic. --Yummifruitbat 14:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support original, support edit, and I would strongly support an edited version that lined up the edges of the image and the edges of the outer crop circles. It just looks more striking when perfectly north-south and east-west. —Cuiviénen (talk•contribs), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 @ 01:29 UTC
I had a go a this but it didn't look all that great as the pattern doesn't line up perfectly all the way along. I think there's either some distortion in the corners (which I tried to correct but couldn't) or the guy with the measuring tape had been in the sun too long... --Yummifruitbat 11:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vote for your favourite angle

Since the rotation of the above image is totally arbitrary, I propose we vote on which way to rotate it for the final image. Consider that 0 degrees is the straightened version above, and -10° degrees is the version as originally nominated. If your preferred angle is not included, feel free to add it in the list where it fits. If you oppose the image, please say so above this section.

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