Talk:Sandy Island, New Caledonia

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Luke Harding (November 22, 2012). "The Pacific island that never was". The Guardian.

Comments

The maps show the fictitious island coinciding with a local rise of the continental shelf, this indicates that its actually a feature of the seabed and not a literal island.

The Landsdowne Bank is meant to have a feature called Nereus Reef in its very north, and the sea bed depth information shows the Sandy Island area marked is the shallowest water in that area.

The area marked appears to be the area that Nereus Reef may be.

The Chesterfield Islands and the New Caledonias north does have islands called Ilot de Sable, which would translate to Sandy Island. The name may have been confused by human error.

The Chesterfield Islands area does have mystery sand islands that can no longer be found since first reported.

Google maps ,etc, show blackness in the area of the island.. in fact they also show ocean inside the island's boundaries too, eg google earth has the 'historic' view, which shows ocean over half.

60.242.170.18 (talk) 10:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is complete nonsense. There is no "continental shelf" in the area in question. The water depth there is 1400 m -- there is no possibility that there ever was a "mystery sand island" there. RandomCritic (talk) 17:29, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I’m looking at GTOPO30 bathymetry. There IS a seamount there and it appears to reach to or just below sea level in the same space as the outline of the purported island. I don’t know where this notion of deep water comes from. Indeed the bathymetry suggest an easy explanation for the island: vectors were digitized automatically from bathymetry data. I see the World Vector Shoreline and World Databank II both show the island. Strebe (talk) 19:58, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's coming from the RV Southern Surveyor ss2012_v06 "Tectonic framework for the easternmost Coral Sea and northern extent of the Lord Howe hotspot" research voyage that recently passed nearby. The program is here but I don't think they have published an cruise report yet. Sean.hoyland - talk 20:28, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The more I muse over this, the more I am convinced we’re talking about at least two different locations and possibly three. The digital data I look at all agree the water is VERY shallow or there is even an island (at low tide?) where Google Maps says “Sandy Island”. These data are:

World Vector Shoreline (vector data source from NOAA)
World Databank II (vector data source from US State Department)
NASA Blue Marble imagery (satellite imagery)
GTOPO30 bathymetry (USGS 30 arcsecond DEM data)

Unless we imagine some massive pan-agency, long-running conspiracy in the US government concerning a region of no interest to the country, we have to consider each of these sources to be independent. Yet we have an expedition claiming to have visited the area and finding 1400m waters. 1400m! We have an interesting story from year 2000 about amateur radio enthusiasts wanting the area as a new entity on their DXCC list, and determining that the alleged Sandy Island does not exist.

How could a “scientific expedition” sail to the “same” place and find something so utterly different? Because they didn’t go to the same place, of course. How could they not have gone to the same place, given GPS, their modern navigational equipment, blah blah?

Not sure. I don’t think a mismatched datum could explain it; there isn’t deep water close enough to the seamount for a mere datum mismatch to explain it. What’s clear is that things are not adding up in this story.

Strebe (talk) 20:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

3DGBR [1] also shows shallow water there. Until the research results are published, I think the "1400m" quotes should be taken as an invention of the press. AndrewBolt (talk)

I look at GE regularly in this area and the island outline has been there a only few weeks. Chesterfield Iss are atop the Bellona Plt. GE regularly get tiles misplaced, nothing new there. The outline is 25km long so I'd be well aware of such a large Is, and would have looked for it on GE many years ago. 1993 was the last time the Southern Surveyor was used for useful work. Projects that may have a commercial outcome are given priority on the CSIRO ship(s). Geology surveys may lead to seabed harvesting of minerals. 220.244.239.240 (talk) 02:24, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"1993 was the last time the Southern Surveyor was used for useful work."...I don't think so. The list of planned and past RV Southern Surveyor voyages going back to 2003 are here. They are all useful from a scientific perspective and have a go at finding the ones "that may have a commercial outcome" or are related to "seabed harvesting of minerals". Sean.hoyland - talk 07:30, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Last useful trip was about 96. Bios and geos using a Nansen bottle rosette to collect samples, is like using a micrometer as a G-clamp. The CDTO units were removed years ago. The mud grab is more their style! The poll tax on reef tourists has only ever been a commercial outcome ... not one cent has ever been put towards marine research, as was promised many years ago. This Coral Sea marine park will be the same thing. Keep an eye on the tonnage charges for bulk carriers in transit. It will not be announced publicly, since it will simply be a regulation. 220.244.239.240 (talk) 09:14, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

link/pic

~~How about a link to Google Maps?~~

Or a screenshot (in case Google removes the island)?

CapnZapp (talk) 18:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Google Maps is accessible via GeoHack from the coordinates at the top of the article so I'm not sure a link is worth it. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:56, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since Google will consider this an error and most likely remove this island any time soon, I fail to see the worth of a link. The location will probably just show blue water in the future. Thx CapnZapp (talk) 19:01, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How could something show up in the GoogleEarth satellite photos if there is nothing there? If there were nothing there why put something in and then paint over it? Only a major military secret would get covered up so thoroughly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.151.215.254 (talk) 23:05, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Google Sandy

Here's an example of what we could use as illo. Feel free to tweak (make smaller) etc CapnZapp (talk) 18:59, 22 November 2012 (UTC) File:Non-existant Sandy Island Google Maps.png[reply]

Old maps

I have placed a link to Maps of Sandy Island Through History, showing how it has (or hasn't) appeared in maps since 1797. Whereisthygodnow (talk) 20:54, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]