Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rima Laibow

Rima Laibow

Rima Laibow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Obscure alternative medicine author/practitioner/UFO activist fails notability requirements for a biography. LuckyLouie (talk) 12:15, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

• Delete - unless notability can be proven by reliable secondary sources, and the article can be made NPOV, writing style cleaned up to proper standards, cited from secondary sources (that ain't self published)... honestly, if notability were to be established it would be better to start from scratch. WegianWarrior (talk) 14:10, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:FRINGEBLP and WP:AUTHOR. Cannot find any criteria by which this person is notable. jps (talk) 14:24, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:01, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:01, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:02, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:02, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

• Comment. I found three unique trivial mentions about her in GNews archives dating back to the late 80s and early 90s, [4] however, I am not convinced that is enough to establish notability since those articles are not primarily focused on her. Lots of outgoing professionals are quoted or referred to much more frequently in credible newspapers without meeting notability criteria. Similar types of hits in GBooks, but all seem to be from sources discussing fringe topics or SPS. Location (talk) 16:01, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
• Delete. After looking over 15 SERP pages, only fairly good reference I found was here, not much else, doesn't meet GNG.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:23, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
• Coment' - Is censorship in place ? Rima Laibow appears in multiple publications, medical books that have been sold over counters in shops around the world. Books in paper form with cardboard binding. Books with ISBN numbers. What's the issue here ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boss Reality (talk • contribs) 22:33, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

  Reply, dumb question Boss Reality. Why ask the question? You know the answer. I can help you here. Yes. (Brother Samson (talk) 21:50, 26 June 2014 (UTC))

• KEEP, Notable article in many areas but unotable for those who don't like whistleblowers and activists. Someone should make an effort to see how many publications Dr Rima Laibow appears in. Make the effort to look into Google Books for a start. Also the below publications that she has contribited to are for sale on abebooks right now.

• A Cancer Answer: Holistic BREAST Cancer Management, A Guide to Effective & Non-Toxic Treatments (Volume 1) - Published by CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform, 2012 ISBN 1477490175 / ISBN 9781477490174
• Anomalous Experiences and Trauma: Current Theoretical Research and Clinical Perspectives - Published by The Center for Treatment * and Research of Experienced Anomalous Trauma 1992 [5] [5] This is just for starters! (Boss Reality (talk) 22:48, 25 June 2014 (UTC))

Comment. If I could save the article, I would, since I like to rescue articles, but Wikipedia has guidelines, so it really doesn't matter about personal opinions about whistleblowers and activists, the guidelines prevail, and it is people following the guidelines which the community makes, which makes the encyclopedia helpful, powerful, relevant.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 00:24, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment: Both "Holistic BREAST Cancer Management" and "Anomalous Experiences and Trauma" are self published books via Createpace, and thus fails WP:RS by a mile or so - ref WP:USERGENERATED and WP:SPS. WegianWarrior (talk) 09:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• Delete. No evidence that the subject meets Wikipedia notability criteria. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
• Delete Not notable, lack of anything that amounts to significant coverage in reliable sources. - - MrBill3 (talk) 08:09, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• Comment with example to support - Written works where Dr Laibow has been referenced, quoted or has contributed to (Selective) and counting. Below are some of the published books and a good deal of them are not self published.
• Alternative Medicine, Second Edition: The Definitive Guide - Edited by Larry Trivieri, John W. Anderson - ISBN:978-1-58761-141-4
• The Biology of Belief: Unleashing the Power of Consciousness, Matter and Miracles - By Bruce H. Lipton - ISBN:978-1-4019-2311-2
• HEALTH DISCLOSURE: The Sequence to Obesity & Disease - By Adam Masters - ISBN: 978-1-4525-8503-1
• If Someone Speaks, It Gets Lighter: Dreams and the Reconstruction of Infant Trauma - By Linda Share - ISBN:0-88163-182-5
• Journey to a Brave New World - By David Watts - ISBN:978-1-4759-7484-3
• Lifestyle Choices ... Up to You! - By Ginger Woods O'Shea - ISBN: 9781615791651
• Nurturing the Unborn Child: A Nine-Month Program for Soothing, Stimulating, and Communicating with Your Baby - by Thomas R. Verny, Pamela Weintraub - ISBN: 1587541041, 9781587541049
• Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies about the Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating - by Jeffrey M. Smith - ISBN: 0972966501, 9780972966504
• Sightings By Susan Michaels ISBN: 0-684-82369-1
• Swamp Gas Times: My Two Decades on the UFO Beat - By Patrick Huyghe - ISBN: 1-931044 27-9
• The Trickster and the Paranormal - By George P. Hansen - Library of Congress Number: 201116933 - ISBN: 1-4010-0081-9
• User's Guide to Natural Treatments for Lyme Disease - By James Gormley, Caren F. Tishfield - ISBN-10: 59120-177-2 User's Guide to Natural Treatments for Lyme Disease - By James Gormley, Caren F. Tishfield - ISBN-10: 59120-177-2

Comment to comment: At least three of those are self-published works, and the rest looks like fringe publishers. WegianWarrior (talk) 11:32, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment. I agree these sources seem WP:FRINGE; is there anything in the New York Times, Time Magazine, AMA journal, medical journals, psychiatric journals, etc???--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:18, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• Delete; the combination of low notability and WP:FRINGE material makes it impossible to sustain a neutral article. bobrayner (talk) 19:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
• Keep; Dr Laibow is notable as someone can be notable. Explanation. Well known public speaker on multiple issues ranging from GM food to pharmaceutical issues. She has appeared in medical books and manuals as a contributor as well as someone who is often quoted. Books that have been published via publishing companies as well as some self-published feature her prominently in many of them. These have been sold worldwide and end up in libraries and homes and other places all around the world. To insinuate that she is somehow not notable is false. She has also appeared in a multitude of documentaries I believe. She's appeard in some Alex Jones as well. (Brother Samson (talk) 22:02, 26 June 2014 (UTC))

Comment: Simply stating that the subject of an article is notable does not provide reasoning as to why the subject may be notable... If she is a 'well known public speaker', I'm sure reliable sources can be found - even if she speaks about fringe material. If she has 'appeared in medical books and manuals', I'm sure reliable sources can be found - if they are notable enough books. If she has 'appeared in a multitude of documentaries', I'm sure reliable sources can be found - even if said documentaries may be fringe themselves. Is she has 'appeard in some Alex Jones', I'm sure reliable sources can be found - even if I'm not sure that appearing on a show hosted by a conspiracy theorist is something that is notable by itself. In short, reliable sources needs to show that she is indeed notable. Simply saying she is does not make it so. WegianWarrior (talk) 22:46, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• MORE BOOKS THAT FEATURE OR REFERENCE DR RIMA LAIBOW
• The Chinese Roswell: UFO Encounters in the Far East from Ancient Times to the Present by Hartwig Hausdorf - Publisher: New Paradigm Books (August 1998) - ISBN-10: 189213800X [6]
• Shedding Light on Genetically Engineered Food: What You Don’t Know About the Food You’re Eating and What You Can... by Beth Harrison - Publisher: iUniverse, Inc. (November 13, 2007) - ISBN-10: 0595451802
• Nature's Gambit: Child Prodigies and the Development of Human Potential (Education and Psychology of the Gifted Series) - by David Henry Feldman and Lynn T. Goldsmith (Oct 1986)
• Zen in the Art of Close Encounters: Crazy Wisdom and Ufo's by Paul David Pursglove (Jul 1995) - Publisher: New Being Project - ISBN: 0-96938691-0-8 , Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 94-0801411995 [7]

• & * & * & * & * & * & *

• A Better World is Possible by Bruce Nixon - Publisher: Changemakers Books (October 16, 2011)- ISBN-10: 1846945143
• A Cancer Answer: Holistic BREAST Cancer Management, A Guide to Effective & Non-Toxic Treatments (Volume 1) by Catherine J. Frompovich, Dr. Harold E. Buttram MD, Dr. Julian Mejia MD and Lisa Weir - Publisher: CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform (August 17, 2012)

(Boss Reality (talk) 11:16, 27 June 2014 (UTC))

Comment: Two of those are self-published works, with the issues pointed out previously. Three of them are from fridge publishers - one of which seems to double as a self publishing platform. One (the oldest) is from a publishing house that may not be fridge... however the reviews on that points to it being somewhat of a fringe work. WegianWarrior (talk) 11:33, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

References

(Boss Reality (talk) 10:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC))

• Delete - not because she's WP:FRINGE, but because she's not notable enough. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:12, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - To say that Rima Laibow is not notable would be like saying that half of the articles on Wikipedia aren't notable and lack usable links. I've counted around 18 books that the OP has shown here. Some may be self published but others are not. I've also seen a dozen more. I've had a follow up look on Amazon and other sites that sell these books and some of them have sold well. It wouldn't be an understatement to say that books by Dr Laibow are sitting in medical and health centers worldwide. Her work from what I have seen and have been able to confirm, has covered interviews with reported U.F.O abductees, child abuse and post traumatic stress disorder victims, studies on genetically modified food and organisms, alternative medicine and activism against pharmaceutical and industrial giants. She is so well known and prominent in the USA network for activism against forced vaccinations, anti genticically modified food activism and much , much more. The fact that she has been referenced, referred and has contributed to probably more than 40 published books across at least four distinct issues that are all discrete from each other and easily 20 plus different authors just screams notability. She's appeared in documentaries that feature other notable people as well as had her own findings that have been published in manuals and are in libraries. But there's still more. (Canned Heat Returns (talk) 04:25, 28 June 2014 (UTC))
• Comment - I've been drawn in after being out of the Wikipedia game for a few years. I won't go in to the reasons why I left but I will say this, we're all human and sometimes suffer from the frailties that make humans both unique as well as very strange. Remember back in the 1970's when experiments such as the Henri Tajfel experiments and the other one which slips my mind were being conducted. The latter involved one group of people giving electric shocks to the other and the feeling of power that some of the participants had. They abused their power and went too far. Sometimes this can happen in places like Wikipedia where people have the power to make changes and sometimes become overzealous in what they see as their duty. With others it can sometimes be their own perceived vision of their own importance can make them do things that others in the same bestowed / self-appointed role wouldn't normally do. Wikipedia can be an amazing place. Not only is it a source of online information, it's one of the best studies and insights into certain types of human behavior around. It's interactive and it's online. A study into the behavioral patterns of human beings, their interactions with others and their reason for selection of information, what they deem to suitable and no-suitable can be and most likely is monitored here. With my limited knowledge which is at a fraction of what Dr Laibow possesses, I can see certain traits and behaviors being played out here. It's interesting when looking from the perch of a no participant but I dare say from the participants view it must really be frustrating. I'll finish off here by saying that if Dr Laibow had taken up botany or history we wouldn't be seeing this debate take place. (Canned Heat Returns (talk) 04:53, 28 June 2014 (UTC))
• Keep - This one easily gets my vote. Notable for a whole bunch of reasons. I'll try not to overlap too much on what the other editors who voted to keep have written.

Notable for contrtibution to the psychiatric profession. Numerous contribition, quotation or referncing. There exists a possibility that there is another psychologist with exactly the other name but I'd find that a very remote possibility. In fact, I'd put more money on the truthfulness and the genuinity of the UFO abductees that Laibow has intervied than the possibility of there being two people with the same name. OK humour aside, Rima Laibow has a whole plethora of references in many books. Too many to be ignored! From what I can see and from observing the article originators efforts in gathering the info to show us here, I'd say that if Laibow continues to do what she's doing and if the pyschiatric, holistic, alternative and accepted to be normal medical professions profession continues to function, we'll see more and more books and references to her. A point was made here about NY times not having anything on her. Well ... I think that if any journalist covered her they may have to look for another job. No doubt with wwhat's been presented here. And from what I've seen elswhere with the limited looking here and there that I've done, she's more than notable! (Starman005 (talk) 06:57, 28 June 2014 (UTC))