Talk:Control of cities during the Syrian civil war

Template:Syrian Civil War sanctions

Kurdish presence in aleppo

source https://twitter.com/sergermed/status/561985092890144768

https://twitter.com/sergermed/status/560952310776750080

https://twitter.com/sergermed/status/560576534407565312

same account have also mentioned about kurds+fsa rebels in Qazel, Ghara/Yani yaban, Dalhah & Baghirin these villages aren't even marked in this map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Creepz55 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 2 February 2015‎

YPG in KOBANE

According to this confirmed source YPG controlls zorava tel aotk korabi and susan are they even marked on the map?

https://twitter.com/ColdKurd/status/561294811094065153 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Creepz55 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 2 February 2015‎

Joum Ali in kobane.

Joum ali in kobane

https://twitter.com/jackshahine/status/561974858951950336?lang=sv

It's completelly liberated why does the map show ISIS presence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Creepz55 (talk • contribs) 00:58, 2 February 2015‎

Some rebel groups joint to NDF

Syrian Rebellion Observatory confiremed that the Al-Anfal Brigade which was previously part of the Syria Revolutionaries Front defected from rebels and joint to Assad forces(NDF).hereherehere Hanibal911 (talk) 12:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Jaysh al-Ummah(+1,500 fighters) and al-Anfal Brigade change loyalty from Jaish al-Islam to Syrian army. Today they are fighting at Ghouta front against "old buddies".Elijah J. Magnier Hanibal911 (talk) 15:54, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Syria Revolutionaries Front released a statement denying their ties with Al-Anfal Brigade.here Hanibal911 (talk) 16:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Practically, how do we need to percieve this change of loyalty? Does that mean that there will be certain villages en bases that will change to regime held? Any information about that?Raspoetin89 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.191.220.222 (talk) 07:58, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Raspoetin89 These groups now located in Rif Dimashq in area East Ghouta as local militia as part of the National Defense Force(NDF) and they fight against "old buddies"(rebels) Hanibal911 (talk) 08:33, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd say that this change was a result of IF + Nusra aggression against them as potential competitors to their influence. As noted by one comment in response to the link above. BTW, the 1500 fighters was their supposed full strength before being attacked by IF and Nusra. Some had already joined the IF or other groups. At least 2 reports I've seen said only 60 defected. (One was SOHR) Another said they are being transferred to the shia shrine (south of Damascus), and yet another to their home towns. In either case, to regime held territory. Sorry, I haven't been keeping track of the references. André437 (talk) 07:33, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

André437 SOHR said about al-Anfal Brigade but not about Jaysh al-Ummah Also SOHR just said that 60 fighters from Al Anfal surrendered. Hanibal911 (talk) 08:35, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Another source said 20 fighters from Jaysh al-Ummah.

Surrendered/defected, what is the difference ? Considering SOHR's often approximate translations to english (such as "could" instead of "did"), probably none.

In any case, the Jaysh al-Islam and Nusra aggressions against moderate rebels has removed some thousands of fighters from rebel ranks. Whatever the actual number of defections, they are probably relatively minor, despite their symbolic importance. André437 (talk) 00:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

André437SOHR dont mention about Jaysh al-Ummah he said about Al Anfal Brigade. Also another pro opposition source also reported that 60 fighters from Al-Anfal Brigade surrendered themselves and their weapons, in addition to the leaders of the brigade, in order to settle their status, and then joined the National Defense militias.
The Syrian Observer Hanibal911 (talk) 07:01, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

The rebel brigade “Liwaa Hateen” surrendered their weapons at an NDF checkpoint in southern Damascus.here Hanibal911 (talk) 10:12, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Pro opposition source said that Walid Agha, a civilian activist and member of the grassroots news campaign “Revolution Spring” told Syria Direct that Several dozen rebel Free Syrian Army based in southern Damascus defected and joined to pro-regime National Defense Forces in Thursday morning.

Four groups of FSA fighters defected to the Syrian Army and National Defense Forces Wednesday night and Thursday morning in groups of 10 to 30 fighters, reported the pro-regime Yarmouk News Agency media. A video showing defected FSA fighters joining the National Defense Forces along with a pro-regime media personality confirming their defection was posted on the agency’s official Facebook page. On Wednesday, 20 members of the Hatin Brigade, another FSA unit operating in southern Damascus, defected to the pro-regime National Defense Forces, reported the pro-regime Lebanese Al-Hadath News. Last week, 60 FSA fighters from the Al-Anfal brigades based in southern Damascus defected to the Syrian army after withdrawing from their positions. The defections come amidst renewed clashes between FSA units and al-Nusra in the south Damascus town of Beit Saham, reported the pro-opposition Al-Hal al-Souri news outlet.Syria direct Hanibal911 (talk) 10:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

It looks like Jaish al-Islam has finally succeeded in removing FSA competition in Damascus. Although I'm not sure that this is how they wanted it to happen. It will be interesting to see what the defected rebels do when the FSA Southern Front enters Damascus. Defect again ? (Maybe a third time)

If the regime finally agrees to transfer power (or it splinters to the same effect), it could be the FSA and ex-regime forces against Jaish al-Islam and Nusra. With the Iranian intervention propping up the regime, it is getting messier all the time. André437 (talk) 12:01, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Your Analysis is again far from reality the FSA entering Damascus, wow! thats Imagination. I only see massive losses in the Quneitra Front for the Rebels and more Hezbollah commitment, so in Other words, this defecting groups are looking for their mere existence in the World rather than being oportunistic.Mr.User200 (talk) 13:31, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

André437 Your assumptions about plan of the entry of rebels in the city of Damascus and capture him are far from reality. Because if you study the situation, you can see that: firstly they are not enough strong for this and secondly, now on the southern front are increasingly manifest differences between various rebel groups and, ultimately, it pushes some rebel groups to join of the army or to Al Nusra or ISIS. Moderate rebel groups now is not as strong as two years ago. When in 2013 moderate rebels tried to capture Damascus they were united in an effort to overthrow the government but they failed. And thirdly the transfer of power from government to the opposition will not happen because after four years of conflict, it's just not really make a peaceful way. Also currently before of the moderate rebels (FSA and IF) two more important tasks::

• to get rid of ISIS.
• prevent the strengthening of Al Nusra due to the transition some rebel groups from moderate rebels to Front Al Nusra.

although they still continue to fight against the Syrian army but Western leaders and rebel leaders for now begin understand that win military means is not possible and have already some of west leaders and inside Syrian opposition started about this to talk openly. We have already seen a similar situation in the some provinces. in Idlib where Al Nusra captured most part towns and villages from moderate rebels or Deir Ez Zor wnere ISIS captured all rebels position and pushes all rebels from this province or the Raqqa province where rebels captured city of Raqqa and many villages but later ISIS pushed them from this province to Aleppo province and later captured some parts of Aleppo countryside which previously was under control by moderate rebels. Hanibal911 (talk) 14:41, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Al Qaeda in Al Harra

According the "Official" pro Insurgents source. Warplanes raided al-Harra hill which is taken over by Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic battalions.

http://syriahr.com/en/2015/03/clashes-and-bombardment-continue-in-the-triangle-of-dara-quneitra-reef-diamshq/ --LogFTW (talk) 23:59, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Nice one Log.... More info for the Map.Mr.User200 (talk) 12:53, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

"Official pro insurgents source" ? ... There are numerous official pro-rebel sources, but SOHR certainly isn't among them. So you are trying to say that you are the "official Assad regime representative" ? André437 (talk) 03:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

André ffs SOHR is one of the most biased pro opp institute. They not even mentioned the SYAF air strike on nusra leaders, or any of the 2-3 bigger ambushes leaving dozens of nusra dead, they claim missiles hit "civilians" meanwhile there's the video militants in uniforms got hit. They claim 50 killed on BOTH sides in Latakia Durin, meanwhile 40 nusra killed with 10 on the other side. They claimed Handarat village was taken cause the "sources on ground" are fucking al nusra jihadists trying to boost their morale, meanwhile they took 5 buildings in the outskirts.

1) Totholo, you forgot to sign your post

2) Not reporting something on which one has no direct info is NOT a sign of bias. Reporting avances and retreats of all parties to the conflict, generally in a neutral tone, is a sign of impartiality. Try reading the WP guidelines.

3) When I went to school, 40 + 10 = 50. So what is wrong with SOHR claiming 50 on both sides ? You don't understand the difference between both and each ? In passing, note that SOHR tends to be conservative in reporting casualties, and all sides tend to hide their losses. So the losses could have been much greater.

4) As for Handarat, there is considerable evidence, including geolocation, that the rebels occupy at least most of the town. A little more than 5 buildings in the outskirts.

Try being objective, if you want to be taken seriously ... André437 (talk) 21:12, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

SOHR is pro insurgent and they just repeat who the insurgents claims. --LogFTW (talk) 15:11, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

LogFTW That evidently applies to Almasdar, so often cited as references here, since they almost always cite the regime as their source, even for advances by the rebels. Their posts indicate almost no moderate rebels, even in the south where the moderates are the large majority.

However there is no similar evidence to that effect of SOHR. Note that most neutral sources operate in rebel areas, including the few foreign media on the ground. If you choose to call SOHR biased, I would suggest that it is a reflection of your own bias, or willingness to accept regime propaganda. Don't forget that the regime (Assad included) denies doing the chemical weapon attack around Damascus, and the usage of barrel bombs against civilians. Both well documented by neutral sources. André437 (talk) 21:12, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

SHOR is not neutral they are pro beheaders since the 2011, it's well know for all --LogFTW (talk) 14:43, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Current situation in Azaz, Aleppo

According to Al Monitor Azaz was liberated by Jabhat al-Akrad, the Northern Storm Brigade and Liwa al-Tawhid in early 2014. Does anyone know the current status? If Jabhat al-Akrad didn't leave, then we should change its colour from green to green/yellow. My source is [1] from March 2014. --Ahmetyal (talk) 20:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

I've found a later source [2] from August 2014, saying " Opposition groups, first and foremost the Jabhat Al Akrad (Kurdish Front), say they cannot afford to lose control of the town [Azaz]." --Ahmetyal (talk) 20:42, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Northern Storm is based there, most of their members come from the surrounding areas. The kurds are the majority just to the west, and generally relations between kurds and arabs in northern aleppo province is good. So I would leave the town green.

Except where al Akrad is a clear majority over arab groups, I would favour leaving towns green since their cooperation with arab groups in their areas tend to be excellent. Don't forget that al Akrad was formally part of the FSA until expelled during a period of anti-kurd sentiment, which has mostly passed.

As I understand it, in the Aleppo city neighbourhood of Sheikh Massoud, it is al-Akrad in unshared control (in the residential areas), so I would leave that yellow.

My 2 cents André437 (talk) 21:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Al Akrad published their new logo this year (far most on the right), it clearly shows 2 FSA flags on it. DuckZz (talk 22:19, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

The independence flag. A good sign for future cooperation between moderate kurdish and arab rebels André437 (talk) 11:33, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

These guys also claim kurdish front active in azaz

https://twitter.com/arabthomness/status/573555959265693696 https://twitter.com/sergermed/status/569827200301707264

+

You have this interview it says (ANF/AZAZ) https://rojavareport.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/interview-with-jabhat-al-akrad-commander/

http://aranews.net/2014/02/rebel-group-of-jabhat-al-akrad-regains-control-over-areas-near-aleppo/

Hisso pointed out that the Brigade considered the areas between villages of Deir Jamal, Meryamin, Azaz and Tel Rifaat cities as conflict zones, warning civilians to evacuate the area in order to avoid casualties. --Creepz55 (talk) 10:38, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Nasrat & Hanash - Hasakah

Are there any sources on why these two towns were changed from SAA held here to IS held? MesmerMe (talk) 17:15, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

MesmerMe Source:here Hanibal911 (talk) 19:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I think he wanted a real source, not a rather vague unannotated map ... André437 (talk) 09:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

The same unnanotated map was used to expand govt holdings in the Khabur area from three into eight villages and to remove the shared YPG-SAA control from many areas in south Qamishli so in case we are going to revert these changes (which is a legit idea, Cetin never cites his sources) we should also revert govt control in the river to only Bab-al-Khayr and the other two close-by villages and restore most of the shared villages SE of Qamishli. 186.119.51.112 (talk) 17:26, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

It is good neutral source that not biased to favor one side in this conflict.here Hanibal911 (talk) 09:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

@ Hanibal911 That is not a source, that is an unannotated openstreet map from an unknown contributor apparently based in Russia.

1) Anyone can contribute anonymously to an openstreet map. I've done that for my local area.

2) Russia is a regime ally, in case you hadn't noticed.

3) You repeatedly claim that desyracuse is biased pro-rebel, despite no evidence of that, and his giving considerable detail to describe changes on his maps. But claim that this unknown map with no supporting descriptions is reliable. Try being coherent.

4) No map alone is sufficient to make ANY changes to a WP map. All changes are supposed to be documented, with reliable references, according to WP guidelines. A drawing by an unknown source is never a reliable reference.

5) So please do not use maps to make changes to our map André437 (talk) 02:40, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

André437 Firstly I dont know why you think that it is a Russian source. Secondly we can said that it is partialy pro Kurdish source but it is clear not pro government source. Also he showed success by ISIS. Also many source confirmed that Syrian troops captured many villages on road to the town of Tall Brak.Al AkhbarAl Jazeera Also about Russia here I agree with you that this country is a supporter of the regime but also some EU countries and the United States including some Middle East countries such as Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Turkey supported of rebels but we are use their sources for display success by rebels. My country also supports the moderate opposition. I also fully supports of the moderate rebel in their fight against terrorists from ISIS. But in fight rebels against regime I try to be neutral editor. Also the most of the same villages that was marked as under control of the Kurds and the Syrian army to the south from the city of Qamishli also marked as under their control on the pro opposition map from deSyracuse.deSyracuse Also this source which made this map also some times use pro opposition sources. Here this source used data from biased pro opposition source of archicivilians for editing the map which showed situation inside city of Hasakah. When was clashes between Syrian troops and Kurds.here Also if you look this source used data from many sources so we cant said that this source pro regime or unreliable. He not opposes against not one of the parties in this conflict. Hanibal911 (talk) 08:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

André437 Also if this guy which made those maps from the Russian or he Russians this not mean that he support Syrian regime because it is not Russian official source also in my city live many people from Russia and some from their against Syrian regime but supported rebels and in Russia some people also support Syrian opposition. Hanibal911 (talk) 08:30, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Hanibal911 But WP policy says we need documentation to support changes. Not counting additional requirements for our page. A map without supporting information is just a drawing, not documentation. And anyone can make a drawing. It may coincide with the situation on the ground, but without clear references, there is no way to confirm it.

So unannotated maps are NOT acceptable for changes to our map.

However desyracuse maps come with documentation (on the link with comes with all twitter posts.) So depending on the info provided, we can use desyracuse posts. Based on the info that comes with the map. Some maps have annotations with dates and places, they could be used.

Of course this also depends on reliability, the clairity of the info and assumed bias.

For images that can be verified by geolocation, that can be good if the time frame is reasonable. (For instance, Euphrates volcano (kurd/fsa) images in areas previously long controlled by Daesh.)

For other types of information, subject to the reliability of the source, there is also the consideration of bias. Following WP guidelines, a claim of gains by a party to the conflict is not adequate. By this, for example, Almasdar, which simply quotes regime reports, cannot be used for any changes favourable to the regime. Similarly for reports that come from rebel, Daesh, or YPG sites, for changes that favour that party. This would include gains of any party to the conflict against Daesh, if not supported by objective evidence.

However we have an additional rule for our page : a source which is biased in favour of a party to the conflict cannot be used for changes of gains for that party. Here the problem is determining bias. According to WP guidelines, just because an independent source would prefer a certain outcome, doesn't mean that reports from that independent source is biased in their reporting. And it is the bias in reporting that counts.

That is why SOHR has long been accepted as an unbiased source. They report, to the best of their knowledge, what actually happens on the ground. It doesn't mean that they report everything, or that it is always accurate, because like any other source, they can't possibly know everything that happens.

There is also a WP guideline that, where possible, tertiary sources be preferred. That is, sources that analyze reports from independent sources. This is where desyracuse reports can be useful, since he is a tertiary source. As well, he reports info from both neutral, pro-rebel, and pro-regime sources. I see no sign of bias in his reports.

We should analyse each report of whatever source according to the above criteria. As well as is the information provided sufficient to support the proposed changes to the map ?. On this last point, the recent regime offensive north of Aleppo never succeeded in establishing control, and the regime ended up losing territory in the counter offensive. Yet many editors were prematurely claiming that the regime had made (sustainable) advances. We have to be more careful about this.

Anyway, I know you're trying to do your best. André437 (talk) 11:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Aleppo countryside

Pro opposition source reported that Al-Shamya front(rebels) fighters seized over village of Al-Qarmal and Ghernata farms in Fafin area in Aleppo northern countryside.Qasion News Maybe who have confirmation of this data from the neutral source. Hanibal911 (talk) 19:44, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

The areas around this village are already marked as green, best solution is to change Wardiyah village (already present) and rename it to Qaramil as this village is bigger than the first one, and they are almost on the same spot. DuckZz (talk) 22:46, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

This pro-rebel source is lamenting that IS has regained control Tell Qaramel and claims that Ghernata farms is empty of both rebels and IS. http://syrian-reporter.net/%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%B4%D8%8C-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%83%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%AF-%D9%84%D9%84%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%81-%D8%AD%D9%84%D8%A8/

Location of Tell Qaramel: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.373958&lon=37.273436&z=14&m=b&show=/26649091/Tell-Qaramel Dulldul (talk) 17:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

 Done Hanibal911 (talk) 19:15, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Dulldul did you mean Qaramel town or Tell Qaramel hill beacause it's not the same,I cant understand that source beacause it is not in enlgish also the direction's that you provided on the map show's the town but the name is Tell Qaramel the hill,So please can you clarify which one you ment.Lindi29 (talk) 22:16, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

I was referring to the hill (Tell Qaramel), not the town (Qaramel) which it overlooks. The hill is adjacent to the eastern entrance of the town, as is shown by wikimapia. The Syrian-Reporter source doesn't say anything about the town. Dulldul (talk) 13:05, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

DuckZzLindi29Dulldul Pro government source showed that the town of Qaramel and it surroundings under control by moderate rebels.here So what do you think on this issue. Since, according to data from the pro government source the town of Qaramel and area where is located hill Tall Qaramel under control by moderate rebels. How you think we can use data from pro government source in this issue? Hanibal911 (talk) 19:26, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Hanibal911 well the regime is fighting Isis to,but it is logical that the rebels are in controll of that hill beacause its huge distance from Isis held territory,this is the same issue that I had with you with Taban in Hasakah region beacuse its not logical that you can hold that long on a hill without an a supply route,so I think we should changed to rebel held territory.Lindi29 (talk) 19:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Lindi29 In the case with Taban you were right because another source also confirmed that Taban and Tall Taban under control of ISIS.here Hanibal911 (talk) 19:48, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

ISIL near Khalkhala military airport

I think the ISIL control map in southern Syria haven't been updated properly ISIL control more areas not just four villages Just seen a picture of ISIL fighters besieging Khalkhala military airport but in this map it shows they were no where near that airport

Source

https://twitter.com/journoindepende/status/577707381808717824 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack6780 (talk • contribs) 08:50, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

It just antigovernment source publishes photo from pro ISIS source which said that ISIS besieged Khalkhala military airport but this unreliable data which we cant use for displayed success of ISIS. Also other pro opposition source reported that Syrian troops recaptured many areas which was under control of ISIS in Suwayda province.Syrian Rebellion ObservatorySyrian Rebellion Observatory And some other pro opposition source clear showed that ISIS forces located very far from Khalkhalah military airport.herehere Hanibal911 (talk) 09:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

ISIL Gains in Homs desert

According to Masarpress ISIL defeated SAA in As-Sukhnah and El-Brive villages in Homs desert .. I apologise for any mistake my arabic isnt that good

Source

https://twitter.com/MasarPressNet/status/577828324967321600

https://twitter.com/MasarPressNet/status/577756614578606080 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack6780 (talk • contribs) 16:35, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Firstly it is pro ISIS source. Also here pro opposition source reported that ISIS just attack checkpoints to east from town of As Sukhnah and opposition activist said it is not violent clashes just low frequency clashes in surroundings of As Sukhnah.Syria Newsdesk So that town of As Sukhnah still under control of Syrian troops. Hanibal911 (talk) 18:35, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Also SOHR just said that warplanes carried several raids on areas in the vicinity town of Sukhna in the eastern Homs countryside where was clashes between ISIS and syrian troops.SOHR So SOHR clear said that clashes was in surroundings town of As Sukhan which accompanied air strikes by Syrian Air Force. And that town of As Sukhan still under control of Syrian troops. Hanibal911 (talk) 18:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Also another one pro opposition source said that clashes was between regime forces and ISIS to east from the town of As Sukhna on road of Palmyra - Deir ez Zor.arabthomness Hanibal911 (talk) 19:06, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Handarat

According to SOHR SAA recaptured full of handarat http://www.syriahr.com/2015/03/%D9%82%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%86-%D9%84%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%8A%D8%B3/Hwinsp (talk) 11:55, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Peto Said the Army controlled it https://twitter.com/PetoLucem/status/578107389515190273

If it's 100% confirmed the Offensive staring in February no were at fail after all despite the heavy losses --LogFTW (talk) 14:56, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

This also confirmed pro opposition sources.herearabthomnessdeSyracuse Hanibal911 (talk) 19:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

The Syrian army backed by militia took Handarat after 10 days of fierce fighting with Nusra and other Islamist brigades.The Daily StarReutersAn NaharYahoo NewsLycos News Hanibal911 (talk) 22:07, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

@ LogFTW Before the regime offensive in February, the regime held Handerat and the hills south of it. In the rebel counter-offensive, the rebels captured that and other territory held by the regime before. The regime is far from re-capturing all the territory lost, so indeed, the regime offensive in February was a failure. Without the foreign armies fighting the Syrian rebels, the regime wouldn't have been able to recapture what they did. André437 (talk) 01:42, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Bashkuy in North Aleppo were captured by the Army in February 2015 a location who the beheaders taken in 2012 - the Offensive no is fail at all yet because it continue at the moment --LogFTW (talk) 05:10, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

André437 But let's be fair and recognize that among the rebels also a lot of mercenaries from other countries and not just the Syrians. Hanibal911 (talk) 07:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Hanibal911 Agreed that there are foreigners fighting on the rebel side, especially jihadist groups like Nusra, although generally not a very large portion. And Daesh, another party to the conflict, is a foreign force from Iraq, with a large element of former members of Sadaam Husein's army, as well as a high percentage of foreigners.

However the regime is using formally trained foreign armies, unlike the rebels. As well as being a considerably greater portion of regime forces than that of the rebels. Note that except maybe the elite iranian forces, these are recruited as mercenaries, paid to fight for Assad. Foreigners fighting on the rebel side aren't mercenaries. André437 (talk) 11:54, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I agre with you 100% Angre in the firsty paragraph, most ISIS important men are Iraqui Era soldiers, despite MSM label them as a Western-Become-Musslim Army. However how you know Iranians are paid and rebels not?Mr.User200 (talk) 12:50, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Syrian troops backed by non-Syrian militiamen and Hezbollah have took control on al-Madafa hill and a farm around Hendarat after loosing control on it for more than 10 days after violent clashes against rebel and Islamic battalions backed by al-Nusra.SOHR Hanibal911 (talk) 14:17, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Syrian forces take control of Madafa hill near Handarat as well as a farm near it [3].Daki122 (talk) 14:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Also Andre just to remind you that almost all of the fighters that were killed on the regime side were locals from Aleppo while the rebels in the area have whole units made up of foreigners like the Uzbek unit that is fighting there.Most of the foreigners in the Regime forces are Hezbollah fighters or Iranian backed fighters who are in very small numbers that can be seen in the latest statistic where foreigners killed on the rebels and ISIS sides are 10 times more than those on the government side.Daki122 (talk) 14:32, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Status of the villages around Tal Tamir

YPG has released a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HftY6euObro (at 1:00) which has been clearly shot inside the Grain and cotton depot of Ghabshah here: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.652135&lon=40.354886&z=16&m=b Hardly IS controls fully Ghabshah, as the depot is a mere 200 metres from the proper village. For sure I would remove the west-besieged icon from Tal Tamir. --8fra0 (talk) 12:02, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree. The video is clear. Just outside the silos. (Looks like the north side.)

In addition to the soldier speaking, there are a number of others around casually, out in the open. They wouldn't have that demeanor if Daesh were close. André437 (talk) 02:21, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I have to correct myself (I was distracted by the title of the video telling about Tal Tamir). There is another cotton depot south of Manajir which is almost identical to the other one, but with some details (roofing, buildings around) which best fit with the YPG video. So the video has been shot south of Manajir here: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.678419&lon=40.192722&z=19&m=b . So nothing can be said about Tal Tamir, but on the other hand I see that also Manajir has been marked as besieged, and the nearby village Al Ahras, near the depot, marked as IS controlled. --8fra0 (talk) 07:10, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

That explains why it was a little hard to tell which side of the silos. Close to identical structures, but this one matches. The video was taken on the west side of these silos, which are just to the west of Manajir. So it looks like Manajir is no longer besieged from the west. Al Ahras is about 800m to the south. André437 (talk) 12:26, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I dont agree.When have we start using amateur videos also pro-side sources against another side? Lindi29 (talk) 14:55, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed with Lindi29 We cant use Kurdish amateur video for displayed success of Kurds. Because according to the rules of editing we cant use the pro Kurdish source for displayed success of Kurds. Hanibal911 (talk) 15:02, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Also SOHR confirmed about that video being reliable: http://syriahr.com/en/2015/03/ypg-fighters-seize-an-armored-vehicle-and-kill-7-is-militants/ . So it can be used for sure, if one can find the exact place where it has been shot (and this is the case: in south-west Manajir). 8fra0 (talk) 17:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Lindi29 Hanibal911 Please everyone, objective analysis of the evidence.

1) So-called "amateur videos" can be the most reliable evidence, if they can be verified, by factors such as geolocation. Much more reliable than an article in a major western news source, which depends on we-don't-know-what. The expression "amateur video" is just a trick to denigrate potentially valuable information.

2) The question of pro-rebel|Daesh|regime only comes into play if we cannot otherwise validate the information.

3) In this case every detail in the video exactly matches the silos and the surrounding area. Including the roof and relative location and size of the adjacent shelter, other adjacent building in the video, the surrounding ground surface, etc. No room for doubt by any intelligent observer.

4) All information should be analyzed before being accepted to change our map. The idea that everything from a "reliable source" is automatically the truth is a fallacy. The best of sources can make mistakes, and even the worst of sources often tell the truth.

Images tend to provide the most reliable information, and although maps tend to summarize other info, they should never in themselves be considered reliable. In between we find other types of info, such as from major news sources. André437 (talk) 08:59, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

I absolutely agree, too often here maps made by authors without any reference/proof of reliabilty are used as a source. One could create a twitter account, make his beautiful map, tweet it and use his own map as a source here in Wikipedia. --8fra0 (talk) 00:42, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

André437I dont agree beacause this are pro-side sources which are not confirmed,also SOHR confrims the videos after it has confirmed the story.We also have many videos sources from rebels but nobody used them,but why didn't we use them beacause we have to many pro-side editors specially from Regime Faction and Kurd Faction and they always rejected rebels and jihadis videos calling them fake but if one amateur videos showed up from pro-side sources from the regime or kurd advancing they always made it a big news,but editors like you,Hanibal911 and others who are neutral i understand but in this case I am suggesting to raise a new Issue for amateur videos?Lindi29 (talk) 12:36, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

We have long agreed not to use amateur video as a source because it is very difficult to verify when it was filmed. Also we can not use the video from the pro-government TV stations to display the progress of army and also we cant used to display success of rebels video from pro opposition sources. And the same applies to pro Kurdish and pro ISIS sources. In this rule, there should be no exceptions. We can use the video if the data from this video confirmed reliable sources. So that let's follow the rules of editing. So how pro government or pro Kurdish or pro opposition and pro-ISIS sources very often distort the evidence in favor of one party in this conflict. Let's we will be the neutral when edit the map even if each of us support different sides in this conflict. Hanibal911 (talk) 13:50, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

According to a local pro-govt source, clashes are happening in Tal Shamiran, Tal Nasr and Ghabsnah villages: https://www.facebook.com/HASAKAHNEWS/posts/718946824893160 186.112.207.201 (talk) 02:30, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Pro-oppo Qasion News reports clashes in Tal Baaz, Tal Hormizd and Tal Fayda:http://qasion-news.com/en/content/isis-deaths-among-clashes-tal-tamr#sthash.FUh61gOS.03fPRtiQ.dpbs 186.112.207.201 (talk) 11:34, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2015

Apparently Al Kafat in Hama Province has been taken by FSA/Nursa according to this article http://syriadirect.org/main/30-reports/1930-jabhat-a-nusra-fsa-seek-to-break-regime-cordon-in-homs in addition to the unmarked (on this map) Zur a-Sous air defense base. 162.220.45.98 (talk) 18:06, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

It is just data from biased pro opposition source which we cant use for displayed success of rebels. Hanibal911 (talk) 18:23, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Also according to data from pro opposition map this town located deep in area which under control by Syrian troops.here So need confirmation from neutral source. Hanibal911 (talk) 18:39, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Also SOHR just said that clashes are taking place between the regime forces and Islamic factions near the village of al- Kafat in the countryside of al- Salameyyah after by detonating a booby- trapped vehicle near a regime position.SOHRSOHR But SOHR not said that the rebels captured something in the area. Also in this Syria Direct source just said that the Abu Abdu a-Shami spokesman for Jabhat a-Nusra said that al Nusra liberated the town of Kafat in the east Hama countryside and the Zur a-Sous air defense base.official Al Nusra source So we cant use this data. Hanibal911 (talk) 18:53, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Also pro government NDF source just said that NDF destroyed two car bombs which trying to target a checkpoint outside the town of Al Kafat.here So for now we have conflicting data. And SOHR justa said about clashes between Syrian troops and Islamic factions near the village of al- Kafat after by detonating a booby trapped vehicle near a regime position.SOHRSOHR Hanibal911 (talk) 19:18, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Certainly not enough to say taken by the rebels, so answered "no".

Some other reports say clashes, or rebels only in surrounding countryside. If you think there is enough info, should we mark it as contested or besieged-one-side ? André437 (talk) 09:08, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Later the pro opposition source said that the alawite militias recapture most areas including Kafat (mainly an alawite populated village).Syrian Rebellion Observatory(Cédric Labrousse) Hanibal911 (talk) 21:09, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Syrian troops launched a counteroffensive in Aleppo

• Syrian troops recaptured the village of Handarat.SOHRThe Daily StarReutersAn NaharYahoo News
• Syrian troops backed by non-Syrian militiamen and Hezbollah have took control on al-Madafa hill and a farm around Hendarat after loosing control on it for more than 10 days after violent clashes against rebel and Islamic battalions backed by al-Nusra.SOHR
• Pro opposition source also confirmed that Syrian troops recaptured Nuqat al-IsamatHalabi Farms and now there are clashes in al-Mallah Farms and at the entrance the village of Ard al-Mallahhere Hanibal911 (talk) 19:32, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Sarrin

Pro opposition source reported that YPG backed by allies stormed the town of Sarrin the last stronghold of ISIS in Kobane countryside.ARA News Hanibal911 (talk) 12:47, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

8fra0 Because moderate rebels and Kurdish troops jointly fight against ISIS not correct use the pro opposition source to display success of Kurds. Also it it very importent of strategic town and maybe we need wait more confirmations this data from neutral sources. So maybe you hastened mark it as contested. Hanibal911 (talk) 15:12, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

8fra0 Also another source said that ISIS still holds Grain Silos and depot near Sarrin amid heavy clashes.Jack Shahine also another pro Kurdish source just reported that YPG took control of farms in west of Sarrin but small clash. ISIS abandoned HQ.here So that probably the town of Sarrin still under control of ISIS and YPG for now only prepare attack against this town. Hanibal911 (talk) 15:25, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

1) Hanibal911 and others : just a suggestion, but could you use something more specific than "pro-opposition" ? Like pro-rebel (which could include the kurds), pro-kurd, pro-ISIS (Daesh), etc.

Note that the regime is also in "opposition" to all the other groups. André437 (talk) 00:19, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

2) The Aranews report cites kurd/FSA military saying that Sarrin is contested, so we need to await confirmation.

The twitter post claiming Daesh taking control of some farms west of Sarrin and abandoning HQ in Sarrin, is not detailed enough to be useful. Whatever the supposed reliability of the source. (Daesh could have escaped Sarrin to these farms, or could still control most or all of Sarrin.) André437 (talk) 00:19, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

8fra0 Also here reliable source said that it was all are false news that YPG entered in Sarrin he said that ISIS still holds Grain Silos and Depot to north from Sarrin and YPG/FSA jointly forces not entered in the town.Jack Shahine Hanibal911 (talk) 07:28, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I've just seen Jack Shahine tweet. I don't know why but sometimes Aranews publishes fake/fabricated news, we shouldn't use it anymore as a source. --8fra0 (talk) 15:51, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

All the rumors that YPG getting closer to the town of Sarrin east of the Euphrates River south of Kobani are false.here Hanibal911 (talk) 16:33, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

While Jack Shahine is at least in Kobane, the "Independent Journo" is just a bloke who copy-cats ISIS statements or twitter feeds. Not sure why should we devout any sort of attention to him. EllsworthSK (talk) 18:25, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Agree on the "Independent Journo" Twitter account. It's an "ISIS fanboy" account which is wildly unreliable in my experience. Ryn78 (talk) 20:43, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

@Hanibal911 You should check out sources a little before using them.

As noted by others, "Independent Journo" is a very virulent pro-Daesh/ISIS site with no evidence of substance. If anything, his denial of rebel presence in Sarrin suggests the contrary.

Please, in future do a little investigation and analysis of your sources. Thanks André437 (talk) 06:12, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

No such claim from YPG Kobane or general command. EllsworthSK (talk) 18:23, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Chuck Pfarrer's latest map (released just minutes ago) shows Sarrin still held by ISIS: [4] Ryn78 (talk) 22:19, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Although he also says he has had reports that the YPG has taken the police station in Sarrin: [5] Ryn78 (talk) 23:10, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure we've said we're not using maps as reliable sources, but there could be something to look for in reliable sources. Banak (talk) 04:22, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-OT: Hasakah 2015 offensive article.

This wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hasakah_offensive_%28February%E2%80%93March_2015%29

According to it 100 Hezbollah soldiers are fighting in Ras-al-Ayn/Serekaniye area with a very biased (pro-opposition and anti-PYD) source being quoted, which I assume goes against WP policies:

http://thiqah1.com/news/845

Could anyone revert that if it's not much of a problem? I would do it myself but I have no idea how to do it, thanks in advance.

Edit: The apparently original report in twitter, two days prior to thiqah1: https://twitter.com/abedalazez_kh/status/577579615486652416

Again, pro-opposition source.

186.112.207.201 (talk) 19:33, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Changes proposed for another WP article should be done on the talk page for that article.

Then you could put a link to that proposed change here if you like.

Although, in passing, I agree that Hezbolla forces supporting the YPG seems improbable.

As for reverting a change, click the history button at the top of the page in question, use the comparison feature to locate the related post, then click the revert option, enter the reason why, then save.

You might have to use an account to do this, as is the case here. It depends on the policy for the page. André437 (talk) 02:43, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Done it. We have WP:RS policy, I will not even discuss it. EllsworthSK (talk) 18:19, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks André for the very detailed answer, despite Ellsworth doing the change (thx too) I will take it into account next time something similar happens, regards. 186.112.207.201 (talk) 23:18, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

al-Shaddadi

Two days ago pro opposition source reported that Revolutionaries targeted the eastern checkpoint of ISIS in al-Shaddadi area, which is one of the biggest and strongest ISIS checkpoints in the area, killing the eastern sector’s commander along with other militants. This is the first special operations after ISIS gained control of al-Shaddadi in al-Hasakah province.RFS Media Office Hanibal911 (talk) 17:28, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Also another one pro opposition source reported that after attacks in North Syria. A new brigade Jaysh al-Islam which dedicated fight against ISIS led an attack near al-Shaddadi in Hasakah province.Syrian Rebellion Observatory Also moderate rebels claim that they killed several ISIS fighters during an undercover operation in city of Shaddadi.here Also pro opposition source ARA News reported that the several leading members of the Islamic State group ISIS were reportedly killed in an attack by rebels of the Hayzoom Unit (linked to the Army of Islam) in the city of Shaddadi (60 km south of Hasakah) The military operation, described by the rebels as “strategic”, targeted a security checkpoint of the Islamic State in eastern Shaddadi, where a group of military commanders from the radical group were holding a meeting. The targeted checkpoint is considered the most highly equipped IS-led checkpoints in northeastern Syria. Khalil al-Hamidi, a local from Shaddadi, said that the attack led to the killing of Abu Mohammed al-Janoubi, “Emir of al-Qate’ ash-Sharqi” (prince of east Shaddadi), and the injury of Abu Mahmoud ar-Raqqawi, head of the security apparatus in the eastern areas (ah-Sharqiya).News Hanibal911 (talk) 18:06, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Anti-ISIS insurgency is nothing really that new. Remember the break out in Manbij or the assassinations in Deir ez-Zor. But when it comes to map, I have serious doubts that presence of underground resistance / insurgent movement would qualify for contested dot on a map. EllsworthSK (talk) 00:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

YPG-IS clashes in the southern bank of Khabur river - Tal Tamr area

I will copy my messages from the previous discussion re. Tal Tamr which is kind of dead by now:

"According to a local pro-govt source, clashes are happening in Tal Shamiran, Tal Nasr and Ghabsnah villages: https://www.facebook.com/HASAKAHNEWS/posts/718946824893160 "

"Pro-oppo Qasion News reports clashes in Tal Baaz, Tal Hormizd and Tal Fayda:http://qasion-news.com/en/content/isis-deaths-among-clashes-tal-tamr#sthash.FUh61gOS.03fPRtiQ.dpbs "

In addition to these two sources, now kurdish media also claims clashes are happening in roughly the same villages, with the extra mention of Tal Heyfan:

http://en.hawarnews.com/12-isis-gang-members-killed-in-villages-of-til-temir/

I think that's enough material to mark the following villages:

-Tal Baaz -Tal Hormizd -Tal Fayda -Tal Shamiran -Tal Nasr -Ghabsnah -Tal Heyfan

As contested, or at the very least besieged from north.

What do the other editors think about it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.116.19.229 (talk) 19:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd say that although these reports all come from anti-Daesh sides, that since it comes from both pro-regime and pro-rebel/kurd sources, plus the fact that we will unlikely ever have confirmation from Daesh, that it would be fair to show these locations as contested. Note that the reports use relatively neutral language, which suggests that they aren't propaganda. André437 (talk) 03:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Suwayda

In the last few days, rebels seem to have begun a large offensive around Bosra al-Sham and the Daraa-Suwayda border region. DeSyracuse has made a new map showing the situation, which can ben found here: http://www.agathocledesyracuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/South-Suweydaa-23-March-2015.png

According to this map rebels have advanced north and south of Bosra al-Sham. This would translate on this map to making green: Umm Walad, Jamrin, Khirbat al Mahara, Samj and Samad, and to making contested: Bakka, Barad, Zibin.

Your thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

DeSyracuse is a pro-opposition source and cannot be used for rebel gains. Sources like Al-Masdar have also denied any rebel advancement in the offensive, so for now it is best to wait for a neutral source to make a statement. XJ-0461 v2 (talk) 22:13, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Why was Bakka still edited as under attack? MesmerMe (talk) 01:42, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

84.24.43.183 Firstly deSyrcuse it is a pro opposition source and we cant use it data for displayed success by rebels. Also he just said that clashes between villages Bakka and Zibin also he is marked these villages Bakka, Barad, Zibin as under control by Syrian troops you need carefully see on map. And secondly without confirmation from a reliable source we cant marked as under control by rebels these villages (Umm Walad, Jamrin, Khirbat al Mahara, Samj and Samad) Hanibal911 (talk) 06:48, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Also SOHR and pro opposition source Documents.Sy just said that clashes between villages Bakka and Zibin and nothing more.SOHRDocuments.Sy Hanibal911 (talk) 06:55, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic Front have seized Kesab border crossing.

Please ignore this. Video was from last year. 76.126.188.171 (talk) 08:52, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Have you seen that your video dated 23 March 2014. Hanibal911 (talk) 08:58, 24 March 2015 (UTC)