Talk:Captain America

Lobster Johnson

Is there some reference where Mike Mignola says Captain America influenced Lobster Johnson? It seems to me that Johnson's primary influence would be the Spider from the pulps.

Reality vs. Fiction

Hi. After reading this article, I found it too much on the side of fiction. Most of the article describes the character's "history" by telling the story lines used in the comic books. That is, of course, fiction (and sometimes, as it is common in comic books, way far fetch). I'm not saying that this shouldn't be done, but it should be accompanied by reports of real-life conjuncture that led to any particular developement in the comic books. This is done only briefly at the beginning of the article, but it is not recovered later on, as the text focuses on fiction only. For instance, the early paragraphs state that the character was revived without much success in the 1950's as an all-out opposer of communism, and that when it was again quickened in the 1960's, that segment of his "history" was retconned away. But since the article only describes the stories later on, this procedure is not made completely clear, since the story told is [I imagine] the retconned one. The article should expand on that aspect, tell the story as it was developed in the 50's, then mention the decision to retcon it a decade later and explain the changes made in the character's story line to retcon it. If not for that quick introduction, I would never have noticed that the story had been retconned, and many might not make the connection, not to mention that other nuances might go unnoticed for the uninitiated (such as myself). This article needs some reviewing, in order to be more encyclopedic. Regards, Redux 02:32, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Redux. The article spends to much time on the fictional history of the character and not on the real history of Captain America as a work of fiction. I don't suppose there's any need to take anything out of it, but if someone is knowledgeable about the real world history of the characters it would be nice to see a lot more about it added. That's what I came hear looking for and was very dissapointed. There's a much shorter but overall more informative article at Toonopedia.--Heathcliff 02:18, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In the 616 Captain America profile some are confusing real Peakhumans with fictionial SSS peak of human potential, which was meant to enhance Cap to the max capacity of human potential. Although Captain America has Superhuman feats, the reason they are not considered superhuman is because one day in the long run a regular human will be able to do these feats in the future. Like in Captain America v1# 402 we see Cap easily benching 1100 lbs while having a conversation. Then with the SSS Adrenaline we've seen many times Cap go over this like in Dead Man running 2, he pulled a supply truck in the desert, or in Captain America Medusa Effect he buckled a thick steel door and in Cap v1#339 he tore off steel from a tractor. He has many feats like this.

The Shield

Khaosworks, it wasn't writer error; unless my memory is fouled up, it came out of the first Marvel Handbook. Adamantium-vibranium alloy was in continuty. Screwed-up continuity, most likely, but in continuity. Anyway, the whole adamantium continuity is FUBAR. Just look at the adamantium entry here (which also has story about the shield in current continuity.)

Besides, the only difference between writer error and retcon, in most cases, is about six weeks. N. Caligon 19:29, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was definitely writer error - Peter Sanderson got it wrong in the Handbook. There is no way Adamantium could have been part of the shield make-up because adamantium wasn't even named until the 1965 Avengers issue where it was introduced as a new development. The Sanderson error was then picked up by several writers who didn't know any better. Hence, it wasn't a retcon - a retcon is intentional. It was never intended to be a retcon. It sneaked in because Sanderson screwed up and the error was propagated. Busiek set the record straight a few years back in an Avengers annual. So to say "some versions of continuity" is incorrect, as it makes it sound as if they wanted it to be an adamantium-vibranium mix. I contend that my version is a better summation of the state of affairs. --khaosworks 20:00, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

Plus, stories overrule the handbook, and I know of at least two stories (one in the mid-340s of CA v1 and the Avengers Annual 2001 backup) which were pretty much written to make it clear that the handbook was in error (the latter one also "fixes" a couple more points) - SoM 20:26, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So my question is: Is it pure Adamantium, which is the same adamantium inside wolverine, or is it a Vibranium-Steel alloy? Because the Vibranium entry in wikipedia seems to think Captain America's shield is the only thing ever made from vibranium. And if what we're thinking is that 616 Cap, and Ultimate Cap have a different shield material, where in the ultimate series does it say his shield is pure adamantium?

The 616 Cap has a shield made from a vibranium-steel alloy - that is pretty much settled. Someone else will have to double check on the Ultimates because I don't have my copies on hand. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 04:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Well it looks like no one actually know if Ultimate Captain America has a shield made out of pure adamantium. I certainly don't remember ever reading about it in the Ultimate series, would it be better just to take out that sentence completely?

More Kirby!

Is is just me, or is this image too good not to use!? -leigh (φθόγγος) 00:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Best Fighter

According to this character comparison tool on the Marvel website, this edit summary is wrong. If you compare Shang-Chi and Iron Fist on the 10 point scale of 'fighting abilities' on the 'Abilities' tab you'll see that Captain America is indeed a better fighter than these two. Kind of pedantic, but I couldn't help myself. (Bjorn Tipling 09:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC))

I would take that chart with an incredible pinch of salt, since I don't think we've ever seen Shangi Chi and Cap go head to head. Ultimately, perhaps we should leave it as "one of the best" until shown otherwise in an actual story. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't forget Fist battled Cap once (IF8?) & it was a draw, because Danny didn't want to hurt him. Trekphiler 08:50, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Although Danny at first did not want to hurt him, at the end of the fight he did indeed decided to use the Iron fist Technique, since Iron fist didn't have much choice as Captain America was getting the uperrhand. It should be noted Danny was not in peak form in that fight though. Text added by Sage.

As far as who the best hand to hand fighter is in the Marvel Universe, or at least on Marvel's Earth, the Taskmaster would have to be one of the leading contenders. He's so skilled that the United States government hired him to teach U.S.Agent how to fight as Captain America's replacement way back when. I'm not extremely familiar with him, but I know that he often is seeked out by various villains and criminals who pay him to teach them armed and unarmed combat. He's spent considerable time examining video footage of Captain America, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Wolverine, etc. and can duplicate all of their techniques and moves due to his photographic reflexes. As far as actually having the most skill, I'd have to give it to the Taskmaster. Odin's Beard

House of M section for CA is not notable

I don't believe this section is notable enough to include in the article. Besides just being a crossover stunt to increase sales, Captain America was only featured in a single issue. I'm sure throughout Marvel's past there have been single issue alternate Universes where there existed different versions of Steve Rogers but we don't include those. The only reason this has been included is because it happened recently. I think an article just about the House of M is fine, and I bet that Captain America will not feature prominently. To give House of M and Ultimate Captain America the same amount of article space and recognition is silly when one is a single issue of a tiny crossover story that lasted two months or so and the other is an entire series of Ultimates specific comic series lasting a few years now with some comics selling better than the original universe's counterparts. At best maybe we should have a section of 'Other' and include House of M with some other versions... (Bjorn Tipling 17:44, 24 December 2005 (UTC))

The Falcon

How is it possible that there is no substantial mention of the Falcon?? He was partnered with Cap at least till the 80s, and was even double billed on the covers back in the 70s. Whether you like him, love him, hate him, you cant just not mention a character who has been as integral to the Captain America history as Sam Wilson. Perplexed!

At first I thought you were totally wrong about Falcon not being in the article, and then I saw you were right. I notice now at least something has been added. However, I'm curious as to how this oversight could have happened in the first place. They had all the references to Bucky, Nick Fury, the Invaders (created by Roy Thomas in the 70s!) and even modern story lines like House of M. Its like they went out of their way not to include him. 131.37.206.6 17:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Never attrtibute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:26, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

We need a Grant

"Some stories" say Steven Grant? Isn't that canon? It was in an ish CA I saw it... And "Reinstein" being "codename" is a retcon. Trekphiler 08:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I believe Erskine is the retcon, not Reinstein. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Some stories say Steven Grant", though. Elaborate? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:04, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Captain America DID Have super powers

During a story arc in the 70's, the poison from one of the Viper's darts interacted with the serum/virus that transformed Steve Rogers into Captain America. This interaction resulted in Captain America obtaining super-strength, i.e., ripping steel doors off hinges, etc. While this was pleasing to Steve, who felt that he was no longer just "a costumed athlete", it was troubling to the Falcon who now felt like a second class hero.

I believe the "Grant" middle name was part of a false memory implant that came from a story arc back in the early 80s (?)but was soon resolved. Cap never had a middle name. Also, wasnt the Grant name used in the Godforsaken 40s movie serial?

That portrayal of Super strength was done poorly in that long run. As already stated above, that Captain America ripped steel doors off hinges with the super strength. Steve Rogers did that and much better feats of strength just with the SSS, as he ripped steel off a tractor, pulled a supply truck through the desert in Dead Man running, to change the wing flap of a jet from the outside in volume 3, to even buckle steel thick doors with a wounded shoulder. I can provide all these issue numbers if anyone wants them. So technically is Captain America Super? Yes.... but he's a form of Super in which one day....one day in the long run/future a regular human will be capable of doing those feats in the marvel universe, as the Doctor stated Captain America will be the first breed of Men that the world has never seen, he also confirmed in Operation Rebirth Cap is the next step in human evolution. A lot of people confuse peak human with peak of what a human can one day become which is what Captain America is. We shouldn't forget that the SSS takes the human body to the max capacity of human limits.

The Shield

I was thinking of giving Cap's shield it's own entry, borrowing the information from here and expanding it. Any objections?

Do it up and let's have a go at it — if it's not substantial enough or merely duplicates info, it might be better merged back into this article, though. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 16:56, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

hey, finished it earlier today. Could probably use a bit more cleaning up, but I packed it with info. But it's pretty good, if I do say so myself Captain America's shield Elijya 01:52, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

2009?

There is this little line down near the bottom, below the movie explanation: "Rumours of a new Captain America movie have circulated since 2009, but have thus far not produced anything concrete." I'm reasonably certain we haven't reached 2009 yet, but I don't keep track of Captain America talk to know how long the rumors have been circulating. SavannahLion 20:14, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Should be 2005. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 20:26, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Nothing on Weapon Zero / The Truth?

Wondering why Kyle Baker's pre-Cap take on things hasn't made it onto the page. I don't have the knowledge to add it, but I'd say it was a significant addition to both the Captain America and "Weapon X/Ten" chronologies. --MattShepherd 20:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

It's there - last three paragraphs of the section on the 1940s. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The "new" Captain America

I used to read the comic in the 80's and I seem to remember Steve Rogers either quitting or presumed dead. Anyway, there was a new Captain and a new Bucky who was Black. Then there was a controversy because Black slaves were called "bucks". So they changed Bucky's name to something I don't remember. Does anyone else remember this and think it should be mentioned in the article?MrBlondNYC 07:30, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

See Captain America#1980s and Bucky#Others. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 07:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

How did I not see that? Thanks. MrBlondNYC 08:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Listing of all the different Caps?

There have been so many different people who have gone by the Cap title at one point or another in the 616 universe that I think there should be a clear list of each one in the article somewhere.

Its complicated because there´s been so many retcons over the years and the chronology of which Cap is no. I, II etc. is all messed up.

Anyway here are some if the versions I could come up with quickly:

• Colin MacIntyre (Protocide, though Im unsure if he ever went by the title Captain America)
• Isaiah Bradley
• Steve Rogers
• William Naslund (The Spirit of ´76)
• Jeff Mace (the Patriot)
• The 1950s anti-communist Cap (later "the Grand Director")
• Sam Wilson, (the Falcon briefly took on the identity in two part retcon story, set in the 1970s era, in Captain America Sentinel of Liberty series published in the late-90s).
• Bob Russo (called himself "Captain America" very briefly during the 70s Nomad storyline)
• "Scar" Turpin (same as above)
• "Roscoe" (briefly "Captain America" during the 70s Nomad storyline, killed in action by the Red Skull)
• John Walker, later known as US Agent.
• The Anti-Cap from the recent Captain and the Falcon series (though Im not sure what the story was with this guy).

In reluctant to post this or anything like it as I clearly dont have all the info. Anyone else more expert in Cap-lore interested?Hueysheridan 20:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I second this; sadly, I do not have the knowledge of the nomenclature. --Chris Griswold 14:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

This sounds like a really good idea. While the info is there in the text, a succinct, thumbnail guide would be a great help for quick perusal. You've halfway done it here already. I guess the only component still needed would be the respective issues were each was revealed. -- Tenebrae 14:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll get to it

Marvel Comics superheroes

I noticed some waffling on adding the following category: Category:Marvel Comics superheroes

I'm not sure why it shouldn't be listed among Cap's categories; although it might be well-trod ground when you look at other categories, it seems that it's still a good idea to keep this one there, if for no other reason than it's not incorrect. Ragdoll 22:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Strongly disagree Not only would this go against the guidlines for organizing categories, it would necessitate the reclassification of every single superhero from practically all comics companies. It should only be listed if it is not already part of a subcategory, which Cap is in sooo many different ways. CovenantD 22:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I was under the impression that the category was already created and that other superheroes were classified in the same way. Thanks for the quick response, at any rate.

Ragdoll 22:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Ultimate SHB

Is it consensus that the ultimate Captain America SHB should be removed? --Chris Griswold 18:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

No Cap Wolf?

How is the legendary Werewolf Captain America storyline not in this entry? It's criminal. Does anyone have the comics that it appears in? --Chris Griswold 05:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I have some of them and I agree the story is glorious. But I disagree about its needing inclusion here - Capwolf deserves an entry all of its own to highlight its true magnificance. I just hope you are up to it Mr. Griswold. Hueysheridan 20:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, you called my bluff. You win, alright? I have an unhealthy, ironic fondness for a story that I only read part of solely because of the dog-eared copies available in my orthodontist's office when I was 12. --Chris Griswold 13:40, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It was joke (as I assumed your original comment was). No offense meant.Hueysheridan 20:33, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I understood. It has been increasingly apparent to me that editors oftem vehemently assume otherwise, so it is understandable that you might need to caution me to your joke. --Chris Griswold 07:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Powers/abilities

On the SSS lets not forget in the bio that it also heightened Cap's intellegence.

In Cap V1 #1 Dr.Erstein stated quote: Blood is rapidly building his body and brain tissues until his stature and intelligence increase to an amazing degree! End of Qoute. Also in Cap #109 the doctor again speaks about what the SSS did to Cap's mind, as he states Quote: My Serum will wipe out disease--weakness--infirmity. He persofies the ideal of --mens sana in corpore sano-- a sound mind in a sound body.

Again in Cap # 176 the Doctor states(again about mind) after Steve takes the SSS Quote: The first of Super-Agents, whose mental and physical ability will make them a terror to spies and saboteurs!

In Young men 24 the doctor again repeats Quote Incresaing intelligence to a Supernormal degree End of Quote.

In The Invaders GS #1 again the Doctor references the serum enhancing Cap's mind with Quote: The first of corpse of Super Soilders whose mental and physical ability will make them a terror End of Quote:

In the most detailed information on Operation Rebirth. In the 4 part mini-series titled "The Adventures of Captain America Sentinel of Liberty" Erstein declared Captain America the next step in human evolution! Which matches why he states in volume 1 that Cap is the first human unlike the world has never seen before!

So the SSS enhanced Cap's Mind and Body to the peak of human potential.Sage99 16:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure who keeps on deleting intellect from the Cap bio but it has been refereced like the above examples.Sage99 14:38, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not overly familiar with Captain America's history, just mostly basic facts known about him. These instances about his intelligence, are they accepted as canon or are they alternate realities? In order for Captain America's intelligence to be at the peak of human potential, then his intelligence would be comparable to those of Reed Richards, Doctor Doom, or the High Evolutionary and would exceed those of individuals like Spider-Man and Beast. I've never read anywhere that his intelligence comes anywhere close to approaching theirs. In every bio I've ever read written about him, genius level intellect has never been mentioned. Odin's Beard 16:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

True, but can Reed Richards bench-press 800 lbs. of ideas? I don't think so. --Chris Griswold 02:39, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

These references that I have listed are from regular continuity and not alternate realities. What Reed is to the understanding of science, Cap is too the understanding of hand to hand combat/weapons fighting/war/tacticts. Cap has even flown easily advanced aircrafts from Namor's race to shield vehicles/weaponary. Cap mastered an alien fighting form in one day while Masters it takes decades for them to master in Avg v3 #53.Sage99 04:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Also the bio at the marvel website references his high intelligence.Sage99 04:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Marvel website is a wiki as well, and false information can be added. Not that this is false information, but it's not a legitimate source. --Newt ΨΦ 07:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Understood the best source is Cap v1 #1 and Young Men 24 both issues state his intelligence increased in #1 to an amazing degree in Young Men it specifies Supernormal degree.Sage99 14:16, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Not sure who added its unclear to what degree his intelligence is, but if you think about it. Its also unclear what degree his strength/speed is as well. Only that its the peak of human potential or the nearly perfect being,next step in evolution, or enhanced to the limit of human capacity all these terms used to describe Cap..Sage99 07:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Not the same thing. He's been said to be at the peak of human potential physically - "peak" is an adjective that denotes degree, so in that respect, there is something to peg it to. It's the intelligence bit that's unclear. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

In the comic when he's reffered to peak of human potential it doensn't not state it for just "physically" only. The Doctor stated in Cap v1 #1 Quote: His stature and intelligence increased to an amazing degree.End of Quote: Meaning both his physical stats and intelligence increased to a degree. What degree is this? We know its the peak of human potential.Sage99 15:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't say that his mental abilities are peak human either. Find me a quote that actually says that his intelligence is peak human. Refer back to the handbook: "Strength level: Captain America represents the pinnacle of human physical perfection. While not superhuman, he is as strong as a human being can be. He can lift (press) a maximum of 800 pounds with extreme effort." "Abilities: Captain America has agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed. The Super-Soldier formula that he has metabolized has enhanced all of his bodily functions to the peak of human efficiency. Notably, his body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing poisons in his muscles, granting him phenomenal endurance." (it goes on to list his martial arts skills and ends with "Captain America is one of the finest human combatants the world has ever known." Nothing in this mentions intelligence being peak human. Given that they give a rundown of everything else and that the paragraph focuses entirely on physicality, the omission is significant. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 15:44, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Also in the handbook master edition 2 it lists his intelligence as peak of human potential.Sage99 15:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Just to make sure you see this in the Hand-book Master edition #2 it list's intelligence as peakhuman. The Doc stated for *both* that his stature and intelligence increased to a amazing degree. Cap is the peak of human potential or as listed in the Operation's Rebirth Mini he is the next step in human evolution.Sage99 15:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Again in the bio it stated to a unknown degree his intelligence which is incorrect. It states his stature and intelligence increased to a amazing degree. By that logic we could say his stature as well is a unknown degree. But this is not the case since we know Cap is the peak of human ability. Even in the Handbook master edition #2 it states intelligence peakhuman. Everthing of Cap's abilities is peakhuman potential.Sage99 16:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Master edition handbook #2 Intelligence-Peakhuman just in case this was ignored.Sage99 16:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Why is Cap's intelligence peakhuman being ignored? You asked for a reference and I gave it?Sage99 17:00, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Also your using a double-standard in your logic you say its unclear to what degree and yet in Cap v1#1 it also unclear for his physical ability degree as well since it stated both....both stature and intelligence increased to a amazing degree.Sage99 17:00, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Master edition handbook #2 Intelligence-PeakhumanSage99 17:00, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

His strength can be, and has been, measured. When you can find an IQ test that he's taken, then you can include that. "Amazing degree" is extremely ambiguous. (Also, could you learn to indent your comments? Following what you're responding to is very difficult. Most of the time it looks like you're talking to yourself.) CovenantD 17:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Well the person that changed it asked me to cite intelligence as peakhuman so I gave him the reference for intelligence peakhuman. Also his strength has not been fully tested since we have seen him bench press easily 1100 lbs with no strain.Sage99 17:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

New evidence that I left out in *Young Men 24* it tells us specifically the degree level, as the Doctor stated, intelligence increased to a Supernormal degree. Which would match handbook vol 3 #2 intelligence is stated *peakhuman* as well. The defintion for Supernormal is: Beyond what is normal, hopefully I did the indent correct this time.Sage99 17:48, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

(To indent: If you look at this in edit mode, you'll see three colons (:::) that cause this to indent three times, to indicate I'm responding to your comment.)

Handbooks can not be used as a primary source for information since so much of what they include has never been in a comic book. We need to look to the original source for information, the actual stories.

You make reference in one of your posts to Captain America v1 #1. Do you actually have a copy of that or are you using a secondary resource, such as a reprint or a web site? CovenantD 17:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

My friend has it and I read the book at his place not sure if its a reprint though art looks old. He also possesses Young men 24 were it states his intelligence increased to a supernormal degree.Sage99 17:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Also what hand-book did you get 800 lbs with extreme effort? I only see 800 lbs but nothing on it being with extreme effort. Actually in the newest hand-books it list Cap as lifting twice his own body weight which is 500 lbs. Which is wrong of course since we have seen Cap easily curling 500 lbs.Sage99 15:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Ultimate Cap vs Ultimate Hulk he wasn't really out of the fight, he was only merely hurt briefly and Ultimate Cap had help, since Ironman just got done fighting and hurting the Hulk, and then Cap dropped a tank on him as well. This is the same U.Hulk that has taken two nuclear explosions already and survived without being KO'ed.

Alright new too add Cap's fighting skill is regarded as one of the best on marvel earth unlike his counterpart, Ultimate Cap yet. In Cap v1 302 Zaran stated Cap is a greater fighter then Shang-Chi. In Avengers v1 56 Hawkeye regards Cap being better then the Blackpanther. As Blackpanther states after Cap compliments his attack. Coming from Cap that is a supreme compliment!

In Cap v1 308 The cosmic being named, The Beyonder states Cap took all his qualities including fighting skill to the peak of human perfection and chose to make himself a duplicate of Cap's body, as Beyonder states Cap is the one. Cap v1 375 Daredevil states Cap is one of the worlds greatest combatants. And Woverine's very own book in the story called Blood Sport Logan states that Taskmaster has copied some of the best fighters including Shang-chi, Hawkeye, Iron Fist and even Captain America himself. In most of Gruenwalds run on the front story page it states, Cap is driven to be the most capable combatant in the world.Sage99 14:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I've added an additional paragraph to the Powers section that reflects this uncertainty. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 07:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Also on the Ultimate Cap curl scene in the picture it shows 12 steel weights multiplied by the standarded of how much each one weighs 45 lbs.... 12 x 45 = 540 for what he was curling I believe?Sage99 05:06, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Notes again I repeat in the official hand books it stated Cap can lift twice his own body weight. But of course that doesn't match since in the books he has curled 500 lb and benched 1100. Speed Cap demonstrated in his 65 special anniversary that he can run a mile just over a minute. For durability Cap v4 #1 Captain America jumped out of a helicopter and when he landed he cracked the ground. In Captain America v1 1 and Young Men 24 they reference Cap's intellect was also increased.Sage99 03:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

You know, 1 mi/min equals 60 mph (97 km/h). Sounds pretty darn superhuman to me. BTW, the World Record for the one mile run is 3 min 43.13 s by Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco. --Anshelm '77 23:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes he has many other feats that are darn superhuman as well. Like catching thick mid-flight torpedo's in WW2. Or hitting Baron Blood out of the high-sky with a thrown shield, when we clearly see Blood above the clouds. As the comic tells us Cap has a preternatural strength meaning above man. He also has jumped off buildings to the ground without the aid of his shield and has buckled thick steel doors, to even bent easily jail bars. These all are superhuman, but in the marvel universe Cap is just the nearly perfect human or the peak of human potential.Sage99 15:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's just various writers screwing with the character as writers tend to do. It's not uncommon for writers to jack up his physical attributes in certain situations, such as being in a fight with someone who's superhuman. I recall that he, somehow, broke a few of Mr.Hyde's ribs with a single punch. Hyde, while quite generic, has still taken blows from beings as powerful as Thor and the Hulk and not had a scratch on him. In the Marvel Handbooks, strength is measured by how much a character can lift over his/her head, which is a military press, instead of how much they can bench press. A lifter can usually, always in my experience, bench press more than he can military press, which explains that Captain America could bench press 1,100 pounds easily. Speaking as someone who lifts often, it's not uncommon for someone to be able to military press two-thirds of their maximum bench press. So, say for the sake of argument, Cap could bench press 1,200 pounds max. That would probably put him right around the 800 pound area in terms of military pressing. In the old Marvel Handbooks, which is still what many people tend to go by, Peak Human strength means someone can lift double their own body weight up to the 800 pound mark. If 800 pounds is the most a human can lift above his/her head in the Marvel Universe, without being considered superhuman, and Cap is supposed to be the perfect physical speciman, then I think 800 pounds sounds about right. Odin's Beard

1200 pounds wasn't his max though, he was doing it while having a casual conversation and no strain. Cap has also tossed over a car and caught physically thick mid-flight torpedos in WW2.Sage99 15:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Most writers don't go by the handbooks, most go by the books. By the handbooks Cap was class to lift twice his own body weight, which is like 500lbs or so. Cap was made to be something unlike the world has never seen. I don't even think he's ever been sick a day in his life, unlike Spiderman. 68.227.127.254 03:46, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

In the original Handbooks, Captain America was written at being able to lift a maximum of 800 pounds with supreme effort. With the new Handbooks, 800 pounds is the lowest level of superhuman strength while it was the most a human being could lift without being considered superhuman, according to the original Handbooks. So, I dunno, it's a toss up. Lots of fans, and insiders alike, prefer the original Handbooks and I'll admit that I do as well. They gave the reader more of an idea as to where a characters physical abilities stood. Superhuman: 800 pounds to 25 ton range. That's one of the new Handbook's listings for physical strength. That's a pretty broad range, far more so than the originals. But, I've rambled and gotten off the subject. There's really no reason to believe that he still can't military press 800 pounds. He's listed at being 240 pounds and if he can military press twice his own with maximum effort, that equals 480 pounds. Since he can bicep curl over 500 pounds, that pretty much blows that out of the water. Odin's Beard

hmmm after checking more and more handbooks, I'm not sure were you got 800 pounds with supreme effort? Sage99 20:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

In the original handbooks, it was stated that he could lift a maximum of 800 pounds with supreme effort. Nothing has changed to cause his strength to increase or decrease since, although he probably is stronger than that simply because of is intense exercise program. But, he's always been listed at being able to lift a maximum of 800 pounds, so to state that he could lift more is just personal speculation. One question I have is where is it stated that he can't become intoxicated and is immune to some diseases? He isn't superhuman, but wouldn't immunity to alcohol intoxication indicate some type of superhuman conditioning? Odin's Beard 18:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I have many of the original handbooks and none of them seem to say 800 lbs. I believe that came from the old bio at the marvel web-site(which is were I read that)? Also I believe Cap is superhuman but its a level of superhuman that man can one day potentially reach. So thats why Cap is termed Peak of human potential, or nearly perfect being and not true-Superhuman. Since he's done super-feats like catch thick-torpedo missiles(Cap #37) and has easily KO'ed many...many superhumans or his feat like running a mile in just over a minute which is roughly 60 mph. He was stated to be immune from diseases from the good doctor who stated the SSS will wipe out disease, weakness, and infirmiry in 109 and many other issue origins. In Giant-Size invaders 1, one of the spectators watching states the SSS also could mean an end to virtually all diseases. The alcohol I didn't add that portion in the bio but I'll find out about it since I've heard it referenced as well before.Sage99 05:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but after reading this entire section, I don't think I ever want to read the phrases "original handbooks" or "800 lbs" again. I'm a little burnt out on them now. --Chris Griswold 13:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Again after reading the Golden Age character handbook the 800 lb "with extreme effort" was not referenced so that portion should be removed from the bio.Sage99 03:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you are forgetting that Captain America is a former werewolf. That is very important. --Chris Griswold 19:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

What bearing does that have? Since he's no longer a werewolf, he doesn't have any of the superhuman abilities of a werewolf. Odin's Beard 21:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not really an expert on werewolves. Is it true that all of the abilities Captain America gained are gone? Maybe I missed that issue. Can you point me to it? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! --Chris Griswold 22:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe that Captain America was transformed into a werewolf in Captain America(vol1) #406 and the story ran through #408. He was transformed by a villain called Dr. Nightshade, a female scientist who had perfected a potion to transform humans into werewolves after a detailed analysis of Jack Russell's, the Werewolf By Night, anatomy. Captain America was injected and transformed, but led the other test subjects, the residents of a small town called Starkesboro who had also been transformed, out of the cells they'd been kept in. After the various villains had been dealt with, Captain America found a cure that'd been developed for lycanthropy. He returned himself and the townsfolk to normal. He offered the cure to Russell, who turned it down because he'd learned to control his transformations. Since he was cured, he retained none of the enhanced abilities common to werewolves. Odin's Beard 22:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It actually says authoritatively that Captain America no longer has any positive effects whatsoever from the lycanthropy? --Chris Griswold 23:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

All I know is that the issue stated he was cured. It's been over 14 years since it occurred and there's been nothing else done or said about it. As far as I know about Marvel's take on the werewolf legend, a character is either cured or not cured. I don't believe there's any middle ground. To have a werewolf's abilities, a character would have to be a werewolf. Wouldn't be much of a cure if all traces of the lycanthropy weren't gone. Odin's Beard 14:48, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Werewolves can't lift 800 lbs. I know that much. --Chris Griswold 15:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Nope, werewolves in the Marvel Universe are able to lift much greater weights than 800 pounds. Cap possessed superhuman strength as a werewolf, but since he's not a werewolf anymore, he's back down to the peak human level. Odin's Beard 00:34, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The whole basic concept of Captain America is that he's at peak human physical condition BUT not superhuman; the point is to emphasize that he can still be a hero without superpowers, as is the case with Batman. The fact that he often does seemingly sperhuman stunts doesn't matter- he's still human by Marvel Universe standards, not our real world's. (For the record, Cap had superstrenght for a while in a old plotline; don't recall the issue now, though.) One thing that MIGHT be argued as being a superpowewr is the Super Soldier Serum in his body; it allowed him to survive freezing once, has been hinted at being able to do so again, and it has been shown that without it in his body he goes back to being a weakling. You never see that in the OHOTMU books, but it is a story fact. I don't like it either, but there you have it. -Wilfredo Martinez 04:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Cap's the peak of human potential unlike Batman who just trained to reach his prime. They had great athletes in the marvel universe already Cap was intended to be something else. Or as the doctor stated Cap would be the first unlike the world has never seen before. Cap was created to be a Super-men while still having a human body. Therefore he's been called peak of human potential and has been even termed in the books "preternatural."Sage99 15:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Quotations

Can we get a quotations section? Cap has had some great ones, including my personal favorite from the Ultimates, "Surrender?! Do you think this A stands for France?!" Classic.- Wakefencer

Great idea! You should put it here. --Chris Griswold 02:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Strength

If Peak Human strength still enables the person to lift double their own body weight up to 800 lbs., Cap lifting 540 lbs. doesn't mean he has superpowers. Nothing else he's done has been beyond peak human ability. (There are real-life weightlifters who can lift three times their own body weight, so curling 540 wouldn't be a stretch for him, with the Serum in his veins.) 70.49.242.85 02:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The thing that's caused some of the mix up with his strength I think is the way the Marvel lists its character's strength now. If a character is able to military press 800 pounds, they're labeled as having superhuman strength. In the original Handbooks, 800 pounds is the human maximum. It's the very most than an ordinary human being can lift without having some sort of natural or artificially enhanced strength. Odin's Beard 03:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. I guess my information is out of date. 70.49.242.85 12:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Steve Rogers and All-Winner Squad

Quoting "Throughout World War II, Captain America and Bucky fight the Nazi menace both on their own and as members of the superhero team the Invaders (beginning with 1970s comics), which after the war evolves into the All-Winners Squad (in 1940s comics)."

Rogers, imho, CAN'T "fight (..) into the All-Winner Squad" because, as the sentence correctly reports, it operates "after the war", when Rogers is presumed dead (freezed). Afaik All-Winner Squad first mission is set in 1946 agains isbisa... The Cap of All-Winner Squad so is Spirit of '76/naslund... the same for Bucky. --88.149.169.237 01:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It's also inaccurate in that the Invaders didn't "evolve" into the All-Winners Squad. I've tried to fix it. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 01:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Massive Reference Section Revision

I am going to do the hard work of reformatting the references using the: ==References== <div class="references-small"> <references/> </div> & <ref name="refnamegoeshere">{{cite web| url=http://www.urlgoeshere.com|title=titlegoeshere}}</ref> format. I hope nobody has problems with that. I am going to fix the Bibliography section and turn that into references, and the references into external links. I'll have to take a closer look. Anyone have comments or wants to help? (Bjorn Tipling 20:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC))

Okay I am about to begin. I will save once per edit so it wont interfere with what other editors are doing, or as little as possible. If it ends up looking bad, we can always revert, but at least we'll have something to compare it too. This will go a long way to getting this article into featured status I hope. For more info check out WP:Footnotes. Also I am adding a template message saying major revisions are being done. (Bjorn Tipling 21:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC))

afraid to edit the page while you're working on it, but in regards to your question about:

Current revision (22:21, 9 August 2006) (edit) Btipling (Talk | contribs) (→2000s - ref for ca 1 2002 - different comic?)

It's Cap Vol 4, issue 1 for nick fury recruiting cap. cap reveals he's steve rogers in issue 3. the prologue of issue 7 refers to him moving to Red Hook. Impulse 22:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay thanks, I'll edit that now. I am going to take a break before I tackle alternate captain americas, because that's going to be a lot of work. I'll take the massive edit tag down while I rest.(Bjorn Tipling 22:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC))

While you're resting i'll see if i can supply any missing dates from my cap collection, i see some issues i have Impulse 22:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You're quite right about those New X-men links being off, Khaosworks, but the origin story refers to the 1940s version (vita-rays were a retcon), so someone can link a more relevant origin referance if they find one before me, i've got to take off shortly Impulse 01:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It's probably either from the Tales of Suspense origin or the John Byrne retelling in the 1980s. I'll check those references up when I get home. -khaosworks (talk • contribs) 03:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I added the Adventures of Cap'n A for now, i skimmed through it and it was a pretty modern origin retelling, but if you see any ToS issues that are better and earlier fits, by all means! =D Impulse 03:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay I am ready to get started again, I'll just work on the alternate captain americas section, and not put one of those tags up again for the whole article. I don't really see many references for the TV sections and what goes after it. Thanks for all your help impulse, those dates look great, and yeah that was supposed to be civil war 1-7 not 77. Thank you also Khaosworks. I better get busy. (Bjorn Tipling 03:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Btipling, let me be the first to say you've done an excellent (and lengthy!) job formatting the article too, before today I hadn't a firm idea on how to do citations, but all those referance links really make the article come together. Impulse 03:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey no problem, I enjoy doing it. I appreciate your help. I wasn't sure people would like the changes, I am glad you do though. I really have a desire to see this article attain featured status. It probably has a way to go, but you guys have been doing great work on this article, I am just formatting it. I don't really have the specific knowledge of the character, I have just always liked it though. (Bjorn Tipling 03:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Also I wasn't sure I could use a self closing tag for second instances of references, or if that was smart if an earlier instance of a reference is later removed, but it did feel like duplication. (Bjorn Tipling 03:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Okay I think I am done. I don't see too many more places where there are clear references. I think it might be possible to make that references section two columns, and if you like I think we can decrease the size of the bibliography section to make it look more like the references section. (Bjorn Tipling 04:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

looks very sharp, i look forward to tighting up specific referances in the days to come. I was just looking at how Batman was a feature article the other day and thinking "hmmm, if that pointy eared guy is a FA, Cap should be an FA" =D Impulse 05:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, we can still beat Spiderman, but wait a second, that article could use some reference section cleaning. I might have to jump in on that when I have some more time. (Bjorn Tipling 05:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Spidey is a lot more disorganized, but I suppose they are trying to work in a lot more storylines. 4-5 ongoing series will do that, cap's history is relatively uncluttered next to him. I wouldn't mind seeing the Webhead get FA either though! Maybe we could propose CA as the collabration of the month, might speed along the process Impulse 05:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Article Size

I notice the size of the article is about 23kb higher than suggested, ideas how how to shorten it? Maybe make Cap in other media a sub-article, as unlike other comic characters, Cap has always been more well known on the printed page than in movies. other opinions? Impulse 05:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that's more of a recommendation, but I am not sure. I noticed that a few FA are pretty big, but I guess the ideal is to have it shorter. Changing passive voice sentences to active voice generally gets rid of a lot of extra words. It can probably be tightened up a bit more. (Bjorn Tipling 05:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC))