Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Proposed referendum on Irish unity

Proposed referendum on Irish unity

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I'm taking issue with the naming of the article 'Proposed referendum on Irish unity'. The topic of Irish (re-)unification has been around since Ireland was partitioned in the 1920s and so this hasn't been the first time a referendum has been suggested: in fact, if you do a Google news search for 'Northern Ireland border poll' you'll see it stretches back far and wide, and you'll find a referendum was held in the 1970s. But, my issue is that there has been no proposed referendum and seems to focus only on the EU. I would've suggested a merge for this article to United Ireland, but the information on party stances, reaction to the calls for a referendum following the Brexit referendum are all on that page, so the information is duplicated. I would be happy for a redirect to United Ireland, if this article isn't deleted. st170e^talk 01:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

True but now there is the possibility of one actually happening. No proposed referendum? Did you read the article? There is a bit of a focus on the EU but only because Brexit is what caused this referendum to be proposed but it is by no means the focus of the article. I'm against a redirect, there is more information to be added with regards to party responses in the republic of Ireland and the Irish government response. Apollo The Logician (talk) 08:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There has always been a possibility of one happening ever since the Good Friday Agreement: if the majority of citizens seem to be in favour, a referendum shall be held. This is nothing new and the information you've given is already in the United Ireland article. st170e^talk 18:50, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sure but it was quite low, now there's a real possibility. Only some of it is and as I said I plan to add more.Apollo The Logician (talk) 18:58, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's always been a possibility, but that isn't a factor in deciding on the deletion of articles. You've created a spin off from United Ireland and your information should be located there. Look at Google news for 'border poll' and you'll find it's been suggested and proposed for years and years. st170e^talk 20:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Like I already said now there's a real possibility, not just a slim chance. No I haven't this event is worthy of its own article. There's enough info and discussion about it to warrant an article. Apollo The Logician (talk) 20:40, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It has always been a real possibility. This is entirely WP:CRYSTAL. If you want to include this article, then add it to the United Ireland article where opinion polls and party stances already exist. st170e^talk 20:42, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating it doesn't make it so. Only now are major figures (Enda Kenny for example) saying there is a possibility and that it should be discussed. How on earth is it WP:CRYSTAL Apollo The Logician (talk) 20:46, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

'Major figures' have suggested this in the past, this really is nothing new. 'Expected future events should be included only if [...] [it's] almost certain to take place' - this is from WP:CRYSTAL. 'Proposed referendum' would be acceptable if the House of Commons was in the middle of writing a bill for this type of referendum. Until such an event, the content of the article should be in the United Ireland article, as I've already stated. You're seeming to imply that this is the first time anyone has suggested a referendum on Irish unity, and you're also seeming to suggest that it's only been brought on by Brexit. st170e^talk 20:54, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok even if thats true all we need to add is 2016. Proposed referendum on Irish Unity, 2016 would be the title. I'm not suggesting that at all. Proposed referendum is not the same as happening referendum. WP: Crystal is referencing the later not the former. Apollo The Logician (talk) 21:07, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You're not grasping my point. The 2016 bit does not add anything to the article; in fact, it has worsened the situation. This entire topic is covered in a different article and this is my argument for this to be deleted. st170e^talk 22:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know wat your argument is, it's just been poorly made. As I have stated numerous times there is enough information and it's a significant enough of an event to warrant an article. It's you who is not grasping my point. I'm well aware that a referendum has been proposed before but not in this fashion.Apollo The Logician (talk) 22:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You're entitled to your opinion, but remember that there is a difference between 'proposed' and 'suggested'. I fully understand what you're saying, but the fact is that some calls for a referendum after Brexit doesn't warrant an article. st170e^talk 22:18, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just someone calling for a referendum. Many senior figures of Sinn Fein have for the first time in long time explicitly called for a border poll. Enda Kenny has even engaged the idea, there's also the Leitrim County Council motion that was passed. For the first time in a long time a border poll has been discussed in the south. Apollo The Logician (talk) 22:24, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See United Ireland#Political support and opposition for unification. st170e^talk 22:28, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I dont see your point. What exactly are you refering to? Apollo The Logician (talk) 22:30, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What you have said above regarding Enda Kenny and the council vote should be included in that section and not on this article. st170e^talk 22:39, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No because as I have said above there is enough information regarding it to have its own article. Apollo The Logician (talk) 22:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. st170e^talk 22:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. st170e^talk 22:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. st170e^talk 22:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. st170e^talk 22:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

DElete -- This is complete WP:CRYSTAL. If a referendum is declared, that is the time to create an article. Unity has been a Republican dream sever since partition, but there is a Unionist majority in the North and no evidence that they would vote other than to maintain the union with Great Britain. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:24, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the article is titled Proposed referendum on Irish unity following Brexit. Apollo The Logician (talk) 17:26, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed means that it is in the process of becoming a referendum, or there is serious consideration from both governments. This is not the case. These are 'Calls for United Ireland' and do not deserve a separate article. st170e^talk 19:03, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what proposed means. According to Oxford it means

"Put forward (a plan or suggestion) for consideration by others" https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/propose

Clearly that's not what it means Apollo The Logician (talk) 21:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am very well aware what proposed means; the title is misleading. But that's not why this is at AfD. st170e^talk 22:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In now way is it WP:CRYSTAL. The infromation is here, epsecially the positions of various institutions and parties, mediat etc... There clearly are articles about proposed stuff, like the Basque movement etc... It's not just talk if it's widespread. KeepEccekevin (talk) 01:31, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article focuses on some calls for a United Ireland after the Brexit vote which is already covered in the United Ireland article and on the Brexit main article. This can't exist as a lone article because I don't see how it's notable for a separate article. st170e^talk 12:55, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article is 12,000 bites long of course it's notable. As you can see in the article Sinn Fein have formally launched a campaign Apollo The Logician (talk) 13:30, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should re-read Wikipedia guidelines on notability if you think that article length is a contributing factor in the determination of notability. st170e^talk 17:22, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know, all the information in the article itself proves it's notable. Apollo The Logician (talk) 18:31, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:23, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I think it would be better to cover the material in some kind of article about the entire issue, not just about one thing that might happen.Kitfoxxe (talk) 18:43, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Apollo The Logician (talk) 19:20, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be more balanced and "encyclopedic". Kitfoxxe (talk) 19:45, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]