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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 80.99.208.111 (talk) at 02:30, 20 March 2017 (→Template-protected edit request on 20 March 2017: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Request for editing

Please add the following iwiki to the template: [[ru:Шаблон:СпортсменОИ флаг]]. Thank you. Dstary (talk) 08:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, sorry, please ignore this.. I added iwiki to doc template. Dstary (talk) 08:41, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MOSFLAG

It seems, per discussion here and here that the 3 letter abbreviations do not comply with WP:MOSFLAG. From what I can gather either the flags need removing or the full country names need giving. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 10:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. In particular, the section Country can sometimes be omitted when flag re-used in the MOS specifically mentions that {{flag|JPN}} (which renders as  JPN) is a shorter varient of {{flag|Japan}} (which renders as  Japan) Bluap (talk)
You are in fact right, I had not spotted that. If it's okay I'm going to use your diff to try and get more discussion over at MOS from the people who were against three letter abbreviations. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 13:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 16 October 2012

Can you adjust the image size to 21 by 20, instead of 22 by 20? Three flags (Chile, South Korea, and Romania) have been disabled and unable to show its flag on the template, also adjust as well on flagIOC and flagIOCteam. Thank you. What seems to be the problem with wikipedia in relation to disabled flag displays?

Raymarcbadz 18:58, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is this related to the problem described at Template talk:Country data South Korea#Display? I don't see any issues with that --Redrose64 (talk) 19:09, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, everywhere in Wikipedia. Raymarcbadz 02:39, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not an issue with this template, it is a temporary issue with cached png files on Commons. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 05:19, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If this has not been an issue, when will these flags be brought back to their original state or form? Flag of South Korea (22px) has been disabled for nearly a week already. Raymarcbadz 07:56, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea. You can track the bug at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40980. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 08:21, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Option to move flag

In many team sports we have ability to put flag on the right for matches. For example {{fb}} and {{vb}} (flag on left), and {{vb-rt}} (flag on right). You can see in {{Football box}} how they are used to have flags towards the midddle and the score. However for Beach volleyball with individual teams (more than one per nation) we use FlagIOCathlete which does not have the ability to have flags on the right and the results can be seen for example at Beach volleyball at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament. This way of showing the teams looks rather clumsy.

Should we somehow try and add an opinion to move flags to the left or find an other way to display the teams? Qed237 (talk) 15:48, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Fyunck(click):, @Izno:, @Andy M. Wang:, @Kante4:, @Sportsfan 1234:, @Sillyfolkboy:, @Basement12:, @SMcCandlish:, @Trackinfo:, @Raymarcbadz: you have all been involved in discussions at Template talk:FlagIOCmedalist and similar so what do you think? Qed237 (talk) 15:53, 7 June 2016 (UTC) [reply]

To keep more manageable
Watched. If there's consensus that develops for a new param that will do this, sure. Would someone mind updating the sandbox and testcases to get a sense of the visual output? — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 16:07, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How should we do with the three letters, for example (BRA). Just switch places with the flag? Qed237 (talk) 16:18, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Is the current view with flags first, then team, then country good? OR should it be flag, then country trigamme, and individuals last? Qed237 (talk) 16:20, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have no objections. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Sportsfan 1234: How do you want it to look? Do nothing at all? Just move the flag? Change place for flag and trigamme? A new look with Flag, trigamme and lastly the individuals? Qed237 (talk) 16:40, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(I'm temporarily on public wifi) The suggested layout change(s) is prototyped here, taken from the Beach volleyball page mentioned above. At first glance, it looks a bit strange. Should I prototype with a different set of text? — Andymw2 · t · ctb 16:47, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it looks a bit strange. Also I meant flags should be towards middle (close to score). I will see if I can also make some prototypes. Qed237 (talk) 17:00, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Qed237: What about Special:Permalink/724183398? — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 17:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Andy M. Wang: Better. Layout2 is in my opinion best but would be good with comment from other users. Qed237 (talk) 17:28, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Andy M. Wang: I used your sandbox to make Special:Permalink/724186693. What about that? Then we use the template as documentation says, with "and" between the individuals. I also removed parenthesis as a test, but they can easily be added again. Qed237 (talk) 17:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Currently we have a few suggestions at Special:Permalink/724179928, Special:Permalink/724183398 and Special:Permalink/724186693. What do you think? @Sportsfan 1234: do you have any opinion about those? Qed237 (talk) 19:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • The display in the example at {{Football box}} may look okay to someone who is approaching it from a "I want this to look like an artwork" perspective, but it's terrible from an information architecture perspective, because it's reversing the positions of two data items, depending on which set of columns they're in. This is also an accessibility problem. The later example, at Beach volleyball at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament, using {{FlagIOCathlete}} does not have this problem, but has the separate problem of the flag being juxtaposed with the player name instead of the country name/abbreviation. As the least encyclopedically useful item there, the flag should be moved to the right of the country name. People whose primary concern in such tables is "I want to line up flag icons to suit my sense of visual aesthetics" are misprioritizing at this project.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  19:54, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Qed237: On the 3 diffs above: scratch the first one; I misunderstood. Let's not do the third one, because the lack of parens is an inconsistency with {{FlagIOCteam}} and its family. (Again, I'd personally advocate for minimal changes, sorry.) The second diff, according to SMcCandlish, violates access requirements (not sure if I agree 100% actually). However, it does make sense to shift the position of the country code to place it next to the flag. The options would be: flag-code-name; code-flag-name; name-flag-code; name-code-flag, which is kind of encapsulated in the second diff (minus the positional inconsistency). — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 21:28, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Andy M. Wang: I dont agree that it violates accessibility either. Also I am not opposed to the parenthesis and as I said I removed them a bit on a test. If you look at Special:Permalink/724218745 which is alternative 3 with parenthesis, what do you think about that? Qed237 (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The current prototypes are at Special:Permalink/724715778, which includes essentially all mentioned above. <-- all, update the number when appropriate (I think this makes it easier to keep track)

@Qed237: I'm in favor of "SmcCandlish layout 2" (or "Qed237 layout 1", which is an extension of it), essentially flag-code-name (or name-code-flag). FYI, to avoid getting in trouble, and to get a citable link for a potentially widespread visual change, I suggest an RfC with {{rfc|soc|tech}} unless we get more responses soon. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 22:48, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Andy M. Wang: I hope now with the alternatives being more clear we good get some more input. I am also in favour of the last two, especially "Qed237 layout 1" as I dont think it violates accessability, but otherwise "SmcCandlish layout 2". Also I think flags should not always be on the right and in medals tables and other tables they should be on the left. Should we reduce the amount of alternatives? For example "layout 2" is similar to "Qed237 layout 1" and I dont think it is needed. Is "Layout 1" needed? Qed237 (talk) 22:56, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Qed237: Go ahead and make cuts. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 22:58, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Andy M. Wang: Should nations be bolded? Just thought I should fix the consistency. Qed237 (talk) 23:01, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Done and permalink updated. Qed237 (talk) 23:10, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have no objections with the decision to change the template format. But the original arrangement is still better. flag-name-code. Is there something wrong? Could you give us an example? Remember this is not only for beach volleyball, but also for all pages across different sports and the NOCs. Raymarcbadz (talk) 02:24, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Raymarcbadz: SMcCandlish said it's a problem of the flag being juxtaposed with the player name instead of the country name/abbreviation. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 02:47, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Qed237: I slept on it, and I now believe that the general format (flag-name-code) is still probably okay. If we really do want to customize it, I suggest a param such as |align= can take on left or right states, which change the format from "f-n-c" to "f-c-n" and "n-c-f" respectively. This way, we wouldn't change the appearances of 5000+ pages, but allow a customization, useful for the volleyball article you mentioned. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 15:16, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Andy M. Wang: That souns like a good compromise. The only "issue" I am having is when we list matches and I am not sure how often that is done. It might be a bit weird with having one style for "left" in matches and an other in tables, and also the issue SmcCandlish brought to our attention, but I think it could work. Qed237 (talk) 15:58, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "SMcCandlish said it's a problem of the flag being juxtaposed with the player name instead of the country name/abbreviation" – That's one of (at least?) two problems, the other being the reversal/mirroring of the flag/country column order, which looks cute if you're a visual designer, but is bad for accessibility, usability, and information architecture. This is real, tabular data that we can expect will be reused (or will be desired to be resuable) in ways we can't necessarily expect; these tables are not posters or postcards, but information that humans and non-humans need to be able to predictably parse accurately.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  10:05, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish: Thanks for the explanation. About taking action though, do you support a "flag-code-name" structure? And what should we do about {{fb}} and {{fb-rt}} that affects a page like 1986 FIFA World Cup Group A? — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 15:52, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If "code" means "country name or country code" here, and "name" means person name, then that would work for some layouts. So would others. Anything along the lines of person-country-flag, person-flag-country, country-flag-person, or flag-country-person, grouping flag and country in every case. One thing we don't want is something like flag-person-country or country-person-flag. Another thing we don't want is mix-and-matching of the four acceptable approaches in the same template or table. The fix for {{fb}} and {{fb-rt}} is to stop inverting the country-flag order, and have "Bulgaria [flag]   1–1   Italy [flag]" (which is also what the rest of the tabular layout is doing with other icons [and it is probably using too many, per MOS:ICONS, but that's another matter]), and stop doing things like "Bulgaria [flag]   1–1   [flag] Italy", implemented because someone thought it looked cute.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  21:37, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The fb-templates should absolutely not be touched (and I believe entire WP:FOOTY would protest loudly). Also I still fail to see in what way accessibility is violated. It is standard to have flags on left in noraml tables and in the match templates with a score, put flags towards the middle. Qed237 (talk) 21:45, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@SMcCandlish: On fb templates: You'd want to talk to Wikipedia:WikiProject Flag Template (and involved WPs) about deprecating {{Flagright/core}} (used on 14000+ pages) and a ton of other mirror templates through WP:TfD. But honestly, overturning this is overturning an established consensus, which, in my opinion, would be quite disruptive, and I am not inclined to help. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 01:06, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is not flags being aligned on the right. Let's not be silly. The problem is flipping flag alignment around in the same table for no good reason. If you don't understand why this is an accessibility problem, it's because you don't understand accessibility issues generally. I concede that this isn't the forum for fixing this problem site wide, but it needs to be fixed. WP:CCC: The fact that a poor decision was made back when does not mean that it cannot be undone. WP:CONLEVEL: The idea that militant WP:OWNers in some sport project may rattle sabres has nothing to do with whether the more useful thing should be done or not, and does not prevent a site-wide consensus overturning their local micro-consensus.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  06:10, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@SMcCandlish: Thanks. For the record, I completely understand the inaccessibility of the material being presented. It's very difficult to extract structured information given how it's presented, whereas a generic wikitable doesn't have these problems. I haven't looked deeper into how that other template is being used yet. I'm not involved in the WikiProject... just happen to be an editor willing to help out technically. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 06:22, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Qed237: On this template, I now think we'd see good support for getting rid of the code. The reason I say so is that "flag-code-name" looks very left-cluttered. See the "fcn" section right below Special:Permalink/724715778#Flag link. So instead of "flag-code-name", we'd have "flag-name", with the flag itself being the link to Uruguay at the 2012 Summer Olympics and such. I believe this would be warmly received, per general sentiments expressed at Template talk:FlagIOCmedalist. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 01:06, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, code could probably be removed. Qed237 (talk) 01:10, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Qed237: I don't think there's been enough participation to warrant a change. There are a good number of ideas to work with though. There are pros/cons for "flag-code-name", the most jarring may be how the name has been shifted so much to the right when we feature athletes in wikitables. As for the volleyball article you initially mentioned, I'd recommend sticking to what's existing for now. But if there are updates, feel free to keep me updated. The permalink is probably helpful for context. Thanks — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 05:34, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 20 March 2017

Please correct the template to show the French flag. There is no image: "The source file 'Flag_of_France.svg' does not exist." (eg. in Gymnastics at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's artistic individual all-around) Thanx! 80.99.208.111 (talk) 02:30, 20 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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