Talk:Euphemism

Euphemisms for Death

Am I missing something? I don't think terms like "croak" are euphemisms—in fact I'd say they're dysphemisms. One would sooner say "My beloved uncle died Thursday" than "My beloved uncle croaked Thursday. —Casey J. Morris 23:55, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Remove specific examples

This article needs major cleanup. Specificially, I propose removing all (or most) of the specific euphemisms, which could be relocated in a List of euphemisms. This article should just focus on the concept of euphemism, in my opinion; a reader need not eat 200 examples to get the idea. EventHorizon talk 07:32, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

By all means: the sooner the better. A handful of examples are all that are necessary. Nohat 08:12, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'd disagree. Example lists might be broken out of this were a lengthy article, but it's not, and there really aren't 200 examples here. This article is on my watchlist, and I periodically swing through and crop non-euphemisms and non-common euphemisms. I certainly don't want this to be more list than article, but I see no harm in having the lists too. Denni ☯ 00:55, 2005 Feb 12 (UTC)

List of euphemisms: How do you like it? --Damian Yerrick 19:35, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I prefer the lists with the article. You may want to go through the article and patch up some of the holes you left (ie, you removed all the text for religious euphemisms, leaving a title hanging in mid-air. Denni ☯ 22:22, 2005 Apr 6 (UTC)

Converse of euphemism

[ 11 May, 2005; Liberty ] Re: "The converse of a euphemism is a dyslogism." Is this really true? Isn't the opposite of a dyslogism a eulogism (eulogy)? Wouldn't the converse of 'euphemism' be a "dysphemism"? (or a phemism-eu?)
Unless this point can be defended, I'm going to remove this statement.
(It seems like the author might have some other reason for posting that there than just defining 'euphemism'.)
Even if defensible, does it belong at the top of the article? We already have the section that states "There are three antonyms of euphemism, dysphemism, cacophemism, and power word. The first can be either offensive or merely humorously deprecating with the second one generally used more often in the sense of something deliberately offensive. The last is used mainly in arguments to make one's point seem more correct than opponent's."

[ 26 Jun 2005; Liberty ] Removing "The converse of a euphemism is a dyslogism, literally 'bad-speech' or 'bad-reason (logic)'."
No one responded to my note, above, and this dubious claim is not directly relevant to the summary description of what a "euphemism" is.

You are correct in stating that the opposite of "euphemism" is "dysphemism". A quick Google search verifies it. Denni ☯ 16:20, 2005 Jun 26 (UTC)

List of euphemisms

List of euphemisms is linked 3 times in the article. Don't you think it's too much? DMTsurel 15:50, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes. - Liberty 09:52, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have removed all but one link. In addition, I have put up a VfD for the list, because it is an ever-growing, unmaintainable, unsourced list, and therefore WP:NOT. One suggestion was to replace the list with encyclopedic, sourced, maintainable, specific articles, such as Archaic religious euphemisms in the English language, Common euphemisms for sexual intercourse in 20th century American English, Euphemisms for bodily functions in 18th century British English, etc. I enter this note here to inspire someone to tackle those topics. Robert A West 14:40, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am a new wiki member, and very possibly don't know what I'm doing. However, I noted that the one remaining link chained to a deleted page. Reasoning that the link was rendered useless, I deleted. Feel free to chastise as needed. Hawleigh 03:49, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't "sexual intercourse" a euphemism?

The following item occurs in the list of common examples:

making love to, playing with or sleeping with for having sexual intercourse with

But isn't "sexual intercourse" itself a euphemism for the original Anglo-Saxon "fuck"? I suspect it is, but I have no actual data to support this. Any linguists out there with some knowledge of the origin of this expression? I think this is also an example of the dysphemism treadmill, as "intercourse" by itself is almost never used outside the context of sex. But, that was not the original meaning of the word (isn't the original meaning something like "conversation"?). Anyway, I think it might be a particularly interesting example, as the sexual usage has become so entrenched (at least here in the US) that many people might not realize that the word had non-sexual origins. Gwimpey 06:11, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have trouble calling "fuck" the original word for the term. People surely referred to sex, and even had euphemisms for it, long before the Anglo-Saxon language was around (note the Bible's wide array of euphemisms). Besides, English is such a polyglot language that it's hard to pin down an original word for something that universal. Be that as it may, intercourse is almost surely a recent, "sanitized" term for sex popularized so that newscasters and scientific works could talk about sex without seeming dirty. On the other hand, its allure (as clean) has made it increasingly common as the correct term for the act in dictionaries and whatnot; it may come to pass that "sexual intercourse" is seen as the real term and everything else as the euphemism. I think that "intercourse" originally meant "conversation", and "discourse" meant "one-sided talk", as in a lecture. - stillnotelf has a talk page 06:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Umm... forgive my ignorance, but what is " "?

As a non-native speaker, I must ask: how about the prevalent "congress", as listed in the Kama Sutra? Euphemism or not? Demf 15:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Examples

"If this question is asked in Europe to someone not used to American habits the person who asks the question might actually end up at a place where there just only is a washbasin and not at a place equipped according to their needs."

I think this is questionable. I'm an American, and if someone asked me "where can I wash my hands" I wouldn't assume they're looking for a toilet, although that is the most likely place for someone to be able to wash their hands. --68.80.78.11 06:59, 6 November 2005 (UTC) no to FUCK it is to good[reply]

I don't think it means what you think it means

Bathroom was replace by rest room? I would venture that the term bathroom is much more common in American English usage for any type of toilet, and almost exclusive when referring to one in a home.

Agreed.. --71.225.229.151 22:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Holiday season" a euphemism?

[1] [the] [winter] holiday for Christmas (derived from the Christmas 'holiday season', which eventually became 'holiday season', which eventually became 'the holidays')

I don't think this fits.

One definition of euphemism is:

The act or an example of substituting a mild, indirect, or vague term for one considered harsh, blunt, or offensive. "“Euphemisms such as ‘slumber room’ . . . abound in the funeral business” (Jessica Mitford).

Another is:

the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant; also : the expression so substituted

The use of the phrase "holiday season" for "Christmas" may well be offensive to some Christians, but that does not make it a "euphemism." Few people see anything harsh, blunt, offensive, or unpleasant about Christmas. The "holiday season" is understood to include Christmas; it is not a verbal pretense that there is no Christmas. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:50, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You missed the point entirely.

"Merry Christmas!" as a greeting or farewell during the month of December is offensive to many people who don't share the belief that the Christmas um.. story.. really happened (to put it euphemistically). Substituting "Happy Holidays" or "holiday season" tends to offend those people less, while attempting to convey the same intentions or meaning. The fact that some Christians are offended by any attempt to not offend non-Christians does not invalidate "Happy Holidays" or "holiday season" as a euphemism. 69.181.66.75 09:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Berk

This article says "berk is short for Berkshire Hunt". But the Berk article says, "it is a shortened version of Berkeley Hunt". This should be reconciled.

Incidentally, both explanations are slightly surprising, since I would pronounce the word "berk" to rhyme with "lurk", but when contained in "Berkshire" or "Berkeley" I would pronounce it to rhyme with "lark".

Queer as Folk quote and response to Berk

Is it really necessary? I wonder if it's overkill.

Also, do most people pronounce "berk" to rhyme with "lark" or to rhyme with "lurk"? Do British rhyme it with "lark" or "lurk"?

It is entirely disgusting to use this quote, very inappropiate! Where are your standards?

Our standards include being an uncensored encyclopedia. An article that deals with the relevance of sexual euphemisms and dysphemisms has to include examples. --FOo 02:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Orwell and "doublespeak"

Contrary to popular opinion, the word "doublespeak" does _not_ occur in Orwell's "1984". The word he uses is "doublethink", the concept of holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously - the mental result of reading "doublespeak" literally, perhaps? I've removed the reference. Tevildo 16:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category needs to be added under Classification

What about the situation Bill Clinton found himself in when he came face to face with biographer, David Maraniss, who had basically trashed him. Clinton said "Nice Tie" which in the sophisticated business world means "fuck you". I didn't see where that euphemism fits into one of the existing categories.

Jerk

Can someone verify the origin of "jerk?" The article claims that 'jerk' "began as 'jerk-off' (itself a reference to masturbation), in reference to someone who was boorish or stupid."

According to http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20010919, it is a shortened form of "jerkwater." This is also referenced at http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=jerk, although the "jerk-off" reference is mentioned as a possible influencer. I submit that the article should be changed. Sloppyedwards 03:39, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Use of "Americanism"

I don't believe that the use of the term Americanism in this article is meant to be pejorative. The phrases "unique to the U.S." or "of U.S. origin" would be more clear. Indeed, these are the only terms indicating a specific origin, which makes it seem unbalanced. --Macrowiz 17:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is Urban a euphemism?

Over the years I've come to interpret the term urban as being a euphemism for African-American, for example, the term "urban audiences" in movies. Obviously blacks aren't the only ones who live in cities and urban areas, however, the term does tend to refer specifically to African-Americans. Should there be a mention of this in the article? Wikichange 03:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Only if you can find a reliable source for that information. Personally, I disagree; I think the use of "urban" in that context is actually an attempt to include people of the particular culture who may not be of African descent. Powers ^T 13:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Doublespeak?

The section titled "Doublespeak" needs cleanup. The definition given is imprecise, the example is poorly representative, and no information is given about (what I'm assuming, can anyone correct me on this) this term's origin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.189.144.80 (talk • contribs) .

Is it "euphemism treadmill" or greater precision?

One example in the "euphemism treadmill" section,

Shell shock → battle fatigue → Operational exhaustion → Post-traumatic stress disorder

May be a "euphemism treadmill" but it is _also_ an attempt to more precisely describe what is going on. Part of the problem is that you had people coming back with stress disorder who had never been shelled. So superior officers would say, "He can't have 'shell shock' because he was never near a shell," and think the soldier was malingering. So they widened it to "battle fatigue", but it also turned up in people who hadn't (recently) been in a battle, just subjected to high risk week after week until adrenaline exhaustion set in and they "went crazy" a little. Hence the newer term "Post-traumatic stress disorder". Which has the major disadvantage of being polysyllabic (my objection to "African-American") and hence sounding like psycho-babble, but at least doesn't exclude people who genuinely have the problem but never were subjected to shelling or actual live fighting.

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