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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 128.171.73.73 (talk) at 23:56, 25 January 2018 (→HIV/AIDS Testing in Kerista). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

What does "bro" mean?

The term "bro" is linked to a disambiguation page for the term, and none of the links there seem to fit in this context. Does anyone know what it's supposed to mean here?

'Bro Jud' was John Presmont's Keristan name. All Kerista members received theatrical names at the time they joined, usually from a ouija-like 'alphabet board'. The Keristan names were usually two words, the main word usually three letters. Bro is of course short for brother. I believe Jud's name originated from the old Keristan Tribe from the 60's. In the 50's in New York, John Presmont had been nicknamed 'King John', for his demeanor at bohemian gatherings & swinging parties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.40.145.158 (talk) 02:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Objections to Content (let's slow it down)

Objections about content should be in Talk, not the main page. Thanks.

  • I removed the following becuase it was indeed editorializing:
    • "For the record, most of the following information is derived from articles and periodicals by third parties, which is like having your neighbor explaining what happened in your bedroom last night.[editorializing]"
  • I removed all references to specific living people. Since no living individual is referenced by name in the article, I also removed the tag objecting to content about living persons. Here are the references I removed:
    • "...drawn by Even Eve (also known as Eve Furchgott, the daughter of the Nobel Prize winner Robert Furchgott), one of the earliest and core members."
    • "One of the children raised in the commune recently graduated from medical school and is now working in Haiti[1]. A former member of the commune was nominated for an Emmy in 2006.[2]"
  • I removed the phrase "(called 'responsible non-monogamy')". I have never seen a publication specifically refer to polyfidelity as 'responsible non-monogamy.' I am fine with this phrese going back in the article...as long as a reference is given that shows someone referring to polyfidelity as responsible non-monogamy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.214.42.64 (talk) 17:29, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keristans and Group Marriage

The Keristans did practice group marriage.

Intent to include Robert A. Heinlein's mention of Kerista in a letter to Lurton Blassingame

The science-fiction novelist Robert A. Heinlein mentioned Kerista in a letter to his agent Lurton Blassingame regarding popular reaction to his novel Stranger in a Strange Land. Heinlein told Blassingame that Kerista had actually appropriated several terms from Stranger in a Strange Land in the letter I read; and expressed his belief that the polyamory and some other characteristics of Kerista social norms came from that novel.

I intend to refer to the letter (contained in Grumbles_from_the_Grave, Virginia Heinlein, ed). If someone can direct me to a less thoroughly edited collection of Heinlein's work, I'd appreciate it. Science fiction writer Frederik Pohl, a friend and correspondent of Heinlein's, complained that Mrs. Heinlein had a heavy hand in editing Heinlein's letters, which may conceal some of Heinlein's thoughts on Kerista.

I solicit any comments from other editors before posting this change, pro, con or otherwise. loupgarous (talk) 10:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Desperately seeking a source referenced in this article

Hi there,

Can anyone help me find the 2 part article by Mitch Slomiak entitled "The Darker Side of Community" I'm hearing it was originally published in a journal but I don't know which one. Ideally, I'd love if anyone can send me the PDF but any help would be greatly appreciated! It was in Loving More Spring and Summer '96

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by AbleDeeDo (talk • contribs) 05:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

a link has been added to Slomaik's articles from www.kerista.com. kip 3/23/2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.171.73.73 (talk) 02:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The articles no longer exist on lovingmore.com, though apparently published originally in Loving More. Instead, I find them as a unified article at Kerista.com, "The Dark Side of Community: Hidden Limits to Lasting Groups" as by Nu Luv, with claimed copyright of 2015. If someone wants to note the actual original publication data, fine, but meantime I'm changing the reference.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 21:22, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please leave Robert Furchgott off this page

It is misleading and sensational, as his connection to Kerista was only by blood. He never espoused or in any way participated in Kerista. - kip — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.171.73.73 (talk) 02:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

evident gaps

An important article, therefore deserving of better work.

Someone asked me how many resident members Kerista had at its peak. While I had a guess, I thought this article might improve accuracy. I am certain that at one time the tribe was broken up into clades with separate residences on their block; I recall three. Anyway, these were called (in typical K-speak) Best Friend Identity Clusters or B-FICs. Neither version of the term appears in the WP article. This broadly hints that there are other big problems as well.

The article could certainly use some delicate work with a mallet. For example: its members being exclusively heterosexual in a city well known for its large and influential LGBT community. That makes it sound as though Kerista was a walled fortress under siege by the barbaric Homosexuals, accessible only at great personal peril.

And unless that statement is 100% overreach, it raises an interesting question. Namely: how is it that Kerista could park itself in THE gay mecca for 20 years, yet have ONLY strict heterosexual (Kinsey 0, I'm guessing) membership? Did they actively avoid interacting with the surrounding LGBT community? Did they decline membership to anyone thought to be non-straight? Were they simply so uncool that no gay person would WANT to join?

The History section could be broken out into something actually resembling a timeline, rather than a big gray block.

Speaking of blocks, the Commune was quite a sprawl, and definitely deserves to have described all the stuff that was happening there at its heyday, not the least Abacus Inc. which at one time offered training classes, Apple service and maintenance, consulted for networking and for the (then new) boom in desktop publishing – particularly the powerful but buggy and crash-prone "PageMaker-LaserWriter-Macintosh 512K system" – and an agency for computer-skilled temporary employees. There were other enterprises; Utopian Technologies rented computers from the Frederick Street storefront.

Speaking of Abacus, no reference is made to Free Love and Selling Macs (2002). FWIW, the article says "At its height, Abacus … employed 125 people"; again, this inclines me to re-check every claim made in the WP article.

Get rid of trivia, or make it relevant. Kerista adopted singer Joan Jett as the "Matron Saint" of their community. Where's the citation? Was Jett ever aware of this "adoption"? (If so, when?) or would "claimed" perhaps be a better word?

While "Gestalt-O-Rama" is mentioned (once), it's never explained. Neither is the sleeping schedule; it's underlying philosophy should be discussed, if not its use in practice. And there was some odd spirit board thing they had, each person holding strings attached to a central planchette, that they used to seek advice from their group mind or something like that.

Some mention should be made that Kerista was at one point in time actively recruiting men, their young women in the "seduction squad" going to parties and enticing candidates with visions of limitless sexual variety… IF they got a vasectomy and joined the commune. While not so creepy as flirty fishing, the parallel is certainly there and ought to be addressed.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 15:12, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As well, better use ought to be made of facts presented in "The Dark Side of Community," particularly as this is freely available online. There are also some nuggets scattered throughout the Kerista.com site.
While existence of the "seduction squad" has been denied by at least one former Keristan, proving a negative is difficult at best. I'm going to lay out the affirmative claim(s), then try to balance this somewhat with the explicit denial(s).
Weeb Dingle (talk) 21:38, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Though it's pleasant to see the work that has been accomplished here, I've a couple of cavils.

  • The article is now full of unreferenced claims. Please, if you don't know HOW to properly credit the source for the fact, then ASK.
  • There are some logical gaps that tripped me up, for instance: Entrance to the commune … included … a screening for STDs including HIV. GRID wasn't identified until 1981; the term HIV didn't exist before 1986. Though I can't find the reference, a specific screening test was further years away; by the time it existed, Kerista was circling the drain. I am deleting the HIV claim, as it comes across in current form as gratuitous.

But, in general, the cleanup is a strong step toward improvement, and I am glad to see it.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 08:10, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

HIV/AIDS Testing in Kerista

The FDA approved the first commercial test to detect HIV-antibodies in March 1985, Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS. With rampant rumors in the SF gay community of a debilitating 'gay-disease', and the widely-publicized death of Rock Hudson from AIDS-related illness in October 1985, Keristans began to discuss the need for STD testing as commune policy. Another important factor was a male member who joined the Purple Submarine who had homosexual experiences with an at-risk partner in his past. I was not tested for anything before joining Kerista in the summer of 1984. However, after the test became available in SF clinics, all Keristans were tested, and all prospective members were required to pass an HIV test before joining, beginning in 1986. I can find no published reference to this policy. Nonetheless, in SF in the later 80's - hysteria and fear about HIV/AIDS was a daily reality. -kip

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