Talk:Thoth-Amon
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In Conan the Destroyer
Just a note: Even though the queen unmistakably pronounces the wizard's name as "Toth-Amon," the subtitles on the DVD actually spell it "Thoth-Amon," just as it is traditionally spelled. Yoshiaki Abe (talk) 04:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
As does the DVD chapter menu. I found this as substantial enough evidence to correct the entry so that it no longer reads "Toth-Amon." --Yoshiaki Abe (talk) 20:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Thoth Amon vs Thulsa Doom
The text says that Thulsa Doom From the Conan movie resembles Thoth Amon. Where does that come from? and where are the resemblances? Being a villain in a self styled Conan yarn is not enough to be like Thoth Amon, since Conan faced many enemies (with Thugra Khotan, Xaltotun of Python, and Nabonidus the Red priest just a few in the evil wizard category). Physically, there is no likeness with Thoth Amon : While all the description Howard gives is "a dusky giant", the fact that he is a Stygian allows us to imagine his cast of features, and we can guess he has the leanness, or even the gauntness, of the desert man and the ascetic. James Earl Jones middle sized and fleshy physique is almost the reverse of Thoth Amon's.
Additionally, the movie Thulsa Doom's powers come from charisma, influence, and transformation. Thoth Amon's come from mind blasting incantations that were old when the earth was young, and from his power over creatures from outside (the best argument for those who insist that Conan's world indeed ties in with the Lovecraftian Cthulhu Mythos). in a word, the Movie Doom is more like the Serpent Men of Valusia than like the arch wizard of Stygia (who, by the way, probably also mastered the necromantic arts practice by Howard's Thulsa Doom).
I move that the phrase mentioning that the movie Doom resembles Thoth Amon be removed.
Also it is said he is physically strong... is there any stource for that? As for his being black, that's hogwash... He is of Semitic origin... and it may even be that in Howard's times, ancient Egyptians (and by extension his Stygians) were thought to be of Caucasoid heritage. In any case, he is in no way negroid, nor a black man in the meaning of African descent --Svartalf 17:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
The noble villain
Somebody described Thoth-Amon as a prime example, of "Howard's noble black villain". I take exception to that, and regard it as POV, and wrong POV at that.
a) Thoth-Amon is a Stygian, not a black man. Recent ethnology has put it in fashion to regard ancient Egypt as a Black African civilisation, but whatever the true merit of such theories, they cannot be applied to conceptions dating from before the 70s, let alone those of Howard.
- Yes. The whole "social Darwinism" paragraph should probably be removed from this article, or moved to Howard's biography. It comes across as nonsequitor.
b) in Howard's fiction, he's not noble by any stretch of the mind. His only personal appearance (in The Phoenix on the Sword depicts him as driven by personal ambition, arrogance, and revenge... and his place as a "villain" is secured only by the fact that he's originally on the side of Conan's enemies, and, on leaving it, gives his demon an order that, unknowingly, not that he would care a fig, includes the king in the Demon's targets. He's not a personal enemy of Conan by any extent : neither really know of the other, or see the other as an obstacle or enemy. He's also mentioned in The God in the Bowl ... as trying to assassinate an enemy by sending him a monster to kill him... hardly noble. Neither does his (heavily rewritten by sprague de camp) appearance in The Treasure of Tranicos depict him as noble... more likie a gain hungry money lender... an attitude hardly befitting of a wizard of his power.
As for his his bravery and physical strength, those are strictly post-Howard representations, probably stemming from the way he's depicted in Marvel Comics. In Howard's fiction, he's depicted as a sorcerer (and possibly a kind of high priest) not a warrior, as such;physical bravery is not something he'd regard as essential... indeed, he's pictured murdering a man by surprise with no qualms, or no giving his victim a possibility to defend himself. Similarly, his strength is never mentioned as being above average. --Svartalf 22:57, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
THOTH-AMON IS NOT ANY PRINCE OF DARKNESS. THAT RATHER IS PRIEST-KING CTESPHON!
In "The phoenix on the sword" where Thoth - Amon has been robbed of his magical ring and forced to flee Stygia headlong, he does not at all seem very impressive yet less admirable! So far from being coregeous he seems cowardly and whining. He does not even have magical prowess of his own to strike down a man standing at his very side but must resort to a mundane knife. As for his ring the only ability mentioned is the ability to summon demons to terrorize whoever he wishes. Even in his own story he appears as little more than a glorified henchman of king Ctesphon. We must probably take him on his words and draw the full consequenses of these when he reveals that it is Ctesphon who casts down and elevates priests and mages at his own will. Stygias daughter-kingdoms,like Kutchemes and Acheron were priest-monarhies ruled by priest-kings who did perform human sacrifices with their own hands and who could be strong empire-builders as well as mighty necromancers.Then Thoths ring was stolen by other stygian priest-mages. Arguably we must see the power of Ctesphon behind this ring suddenly popping up in the hand of Dion.A power that is able to assert itself in the palaces of strong rulers in faraway kingdoms.Those priest-mages are presumably already late if not lamented.