Talk:Abiogenesis

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Frequently asked questions

Some users have noted that many of these questions should be included in the text of Abiogenesis. The reason for their exclusion is discussed below.

The main points of this FAQ (Talk:Abiogenesis#FAQ) can be summarized as:

The occurrence of abiogenesis is uncontroversial among scientists, and there is ongoing research and competing hypotheses for how abiogenesis could have occurred.
Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy requires that minority views not be given undue emphasis.
It is against Wikipedia policy for views without scientific support, such as all known objections to abiogenesis, to be included in a science article like Abiogenesis.

More detail is given on each of these points, and other common questions and objections, below.

To view the response to a question, click the [show] link to the right of the question.

Q1: Why won't you add criticisms or objections to abiogenesis in the Abiogenesis article?

A1: Our policies on Wikipedia, in particular WP:WEIGHT and WP:FRINGE, require us to provide coverage to views based on their prominence within reliable sources, and we must reflect the opinion of the scientific community as accurately as possible. While there are scientific objections to hypotheses concerning abiogenesis, general objections to the overall concept of abiogenesis are largely found outside of the scientific community, for example, in religious literature and is not necessary to hash out the evolution-vs.-creationism debate, per WP:NECESSARY. There are articles covering some of those religious views, including Objections to evolution, Creationism and Creation myth, but we cannot provide significant weight to religious opinions within a science article, per our policies.

Q2: Why is abiogenesis described as though it's a fact? Isn't abiogenesis just a theory?

A2: A "theory" in science is different than a "theory" in everyday usage. When scientists call something a theory, they are referring to a scientific theory, which is an explanation for a phenomenon based on a significant amount of data. Abiogenesis is a phenomenon scientists are trying to explain by developing scientific theories. While there isn't one unifying theory of abiogenesis, there are several principles and competing hypotheses for how abiogenesis could have occurred, which are detailed in the article. Wikipedia describes the phenomenon of abiogenesis as a fact because the reliable sources from the peer-reviewed scientific literature describe it as a fact.

Compare it with the theory of gravity, by Isaac Newton. It explains how gravity works, and it was superseded when Albert Einstein provided a more complete explanation. That doesn't mean that the factual existence of gravity was ever held in doubt.

Q3: But isn't abiogenesis unproven?

A3: The scientific evidence is consistent with and supports an origin of life out of abiotic conditions. No chemical, biological or physical law has been discovered that would prevent life from emerging. Clearly, abiogenesis happened, because life exists. The other option is that life is a product of a supernatural process, but no evidence to support this has been published in reliable sources. There is plenty of evidence that nearly all the components of a simple cell can and do form naturally, but it has not yet been shown how molecules eventually formed self-replicating protocells and under what environmental conditions.

Q4: Abiogenesis is controversial, so why won't you teach the controversy?

A4: Abiogenesis is not controversial according to the reliable, published sources within the scientific community. Also, see Question 1.

Abiogenesis is, at best, only controversial in social areas like politics and religion. Indeed, numerous respectable scientific societies, such as the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the National Academy of Sciences, have issued statements denouncing creationism and/or ID.^[1] In 1987, only about 0.15% of American Earth and life scientists supported creationism.^[2]

Thus, as a consequence of Wikipedia's policies, it is necessary to treat abiogenesis as mainstream scientific consensus. Besides panspermia, there are no scientifically supported "alternatives" for this view.

Q5: Has abiogenesis ever been observed?

A5: No. How this happened is still conjectural, though no longer purely speculative.

Q6: How could life arise by chance?

A6: Based on the cited peer-reviewed scientific research, it is thought that once a self-replicating gene emerged as a product of natural chemical processes, life started and gradual evolution of complexity was made possible – in contrast to the sudden appearance of complexity that creationists claim to have been necessary at the beginning of life. Life did not happen just because there were huge intervals of time, but because a planet has a certain range of environments where pre-biotic chemistry took place. The actual nature of the first organisms and the exact pathways to the origin of life may be forever lost to science, but scientific research can at least help us understand what is possible.

Past discussions

For further information, see the numerous past discussions on these topics in the archives of Talk:Abiogenesis:

The article is not neutral. It doesn't mention that abiogenesis is controversial.

The article should mention alternative views prominently, such as in a criticism section.

Talk:Abiogenesis/Archive 1#ADD TITLE

Abiogenesis is just a theory, not a fact.

There is scientific evidence against abiogenesis.

Talk:Abiogenesis/Archive 1#ADD TITLE

References

^ See List of scientific societies rejecting intelligent design.
^ As reported in Newsweek magazine, 29 June 1987, Page 23: "By one count there are some 700 scientists with respectable academic credentials (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. Earth and life scientists) who give credence to creation-science..." See also Public beliefs about evolution and creation, Robinson, B. A. 1995. for a discussion on acceptance of evolution.

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There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article, in a manner that does not comply with Wikipedia's policies. Editors are encouraged to use neutral mechanisms for requesting outside input (e.g. a "request for comment", a third opinion or other noticeboard post, or neutral criteria: "pinging all editors who have edited this page in the last 48 hours"). If someone has asked you to provide your opinion here, examine the arguments, not the editors who have made them. Reminder: disputes are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote.

Complaints about the lack of young Earth creationism or similar points of view are inappropriate content for this talk page. For an overview of how Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy applies to creationism or young Earth-related topics, please see the FAQ at Talk:Evolution.

Archives

Much of the content of Abiogenesis was merged from Origin of life. For discussion of that page preceding that merge, see here.

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by when more than 1 section is present.

Uncontested

AFAIK there are three versions of abiogenesis: abiogenesis on planet Earth, abiogenesis elsewhere (panspermia) or abiogenesis by miracle (creationism). Panspermia simply refers to abiogenesis at another place, and creationism isn't a scientific hypothesis. Drawing the line, abiogenesis is uncontested. Tgeorgescu (talk) 03:00, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You left out a fourth possibility: the first living organism on earth was assembled – not miraculously, but using sophisticated technical means – by an intelligent entity.

Even the simplest living organism embodies incredible complexity: the instructions for its own assembly, which are executed each time the organism reproduces, are cleverly encoded in its DNA. The encoded information is software. The physical structure of the organism is hardware.

So it's far more likely that the first living organism on earth was assembled by an intelligent entity, than that it somehow assembled itself – its hardware, as well as its cleverly-encoded software – from molecules randomly floating by in the primordial soup.

The concept of a protobiont has been introduced as an intermediate step between non-living matter and a living organism. Given the sheer improbability of an organism assembling itself, it was necessary to introduce this concept, in order to make it more believable that a complex organism could form out of non-living matter. But protobionts are not found in the environment today, and there's no evidence that protobionts ever actually existed. And even if they did exist, it is still a huge, unexplained, and improbable leap to go from a protobiont to a DNA-based organism. 2601:281:CC80:5AE0:3511:23AA:5C26:F44B (talk) 07:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] See List of scientific societies rejecting intelligent design.

[2] As reported in Newsweek magazine, 29 June 1987, Page 23: "By one count there are some 700 scientists with respectable academic credentials (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. Earth and life scientists) who give credence to creation-science..." See also Public beliefs about evolution and creation, Robinson, B. A. 1995. for a discussion on acceptance of evolution.

[1]

[2]