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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Delphir (talk | contribs) at 00:24, 31 May 2020 (→‎why you undid my edit?: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I made a few changes on decade

So I wanted to end this whole "debate" with Blurryman and Frond so I decided to try and appeal to both of us and them, see the new changes I made. If you disagree, please feel free to adjust it. If you think we should go back to the old way, be my guest but I'm hoping we all can agree on something. WildEric19 (talk) 05:54, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you accidentally undid my edit

Hey Jc3s5h, I want to confirm if your revert is done intentionally or by accident here. The reason why I wanted to ask you this is because of the edit summary you left, which tells me you probably reverted the wrong edit. If it was done intentionally, I apologize and will restore your edit. Thanks. WildEric19 (talk) 15:38, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I only meant to remove the word "ordinal". Jc3s5h (talk) 20:38, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Western hemisphere

... used to be defined as 'west of the Iron Curtain'. Defining it as 0° to -180° is a more recent invention, though clearly a more defensible one. I'm afraid I don't care that much about the sensitivities Finnish Orthodoxy to spend any more time on it. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:10, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I personally feel the various definitions make the term useless; I consider it destroyed. Jc3s5h (talk) 00:03, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Metonic 19-year lunar cycles

Dear Jc3s5h, for the moment I would like to restrict myself to only try to clarify ambiguities, for example: "The Metonic cycle is a 19-year lunisolar cycle. An important application of the Metonic cycle in the Julian calendar is the Metonic 19-year lunar cycle. Around AD 260 the Alexandrian computist Anatolius, who became bishop of Laodicea in AD 268, was the first to construct a version of this efficient computistical instrument for determining the date of Easter Sunday.". Sincerely, --Jan Zu (talk) 12:00, 18 March 2020 (UTC) Then I would like to contribute to this page without referring to my book (read it!). Agreed? Sincerely, Jan Zu (talk) 03:21, 19 March 2020 (UTC) (Jan Zuidhoek)[reply]

Referring to the page by the rejected fork name Metonic 19-year lunar cycles rather than the long-standing name Metonic cycle is not a good sign. And no, I will not read the book. The low quality of your edits makes me feel sure the book is equally bad. Jc3s5h (talk) 14:12, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Jc3s5h, First of all: let us eliminate the cause of misunderstanding that the term ‘Metonic 19-year lunar cycle’ (being a lunar cycle, like the 8-year lunar cycle of bishop Dionysius of Alexandria) would be the same as the term ‘Metonic cycle’ (being a lunisolar cycle, like the Callippic cycle). Secondly: I am sorry, but all things I wrote in the page are supported by references to books like Mc Carthy & Breen (2003), Declercq (2000), Mosshammer (2008), and Zuidhoek (2019). I understand that you bother with the plain fact that Zuidhoek = Jan Zu. But this quesion is no real problem. After all, it is possible, of course, to reduce the required references to the first three out of four books. Don’t worry, I do not look after my own interests: Promoting my book is no more than promoting (the third century!) computist Anatolius. So, in order to fulfill my contribution to the Wikipedia page “Metonic cycle” I would like to create a new rather relevant (i.c. relevant in view of Dionysius Exiguus’ Paschal table) subsection “Application in the Julian calendar” with references only to Mc Carthy & Breen (2003), Declercq (2000), and Mosshammer (2008), and (if you should so desire) without referring to Zuidhoek (2019). Please allow me to do that. Sincerely, Jan Zu (talk) 08:42, 20 March 2020 (UTC) (Jan Zu)[reply]

The Julian calendar was created around half a century before Jesus of Nazareth was born, and nearly a century before his death. The article "Julian calendar" is about the solar calendar. The "months" in that calendar are only nominally lunar months and the Julian calendar does not contain any mechanism to align the months to actual cycles of the moon. The computation of Easter is covered in "Computus" and is a separate matter from the Julian calendar. Jc3s5h (talk) 13:17, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Jc3s5h,

1) Why do you ignore the difference between the terms ‘Metonic cycle’ (also called ‘cycle of Meton’) and ‘Metonic 19-year lunar cycle’?

2) The first three sentences of your argument are completely beside the point. Concerning your last sentence: if we consider Dionysius Exiguus’ Paschal table (this is a table for the computation of Easter, see for example Declercq (2000) 197-200 or www.janzuidhoek.net/Recondiony.htm) then we see that all dates in the table of the computist Dionysius Exiguus are Julian calendar dates. Unbelievable that you think that computus and Julian calendar are separate matter. Paschal tables are characterized by their lunar cycles, lunar cycles are always (from Anatolius to Bede) periodic sequences of Alexandrian calendar or Julian calendar dates of the Paschal full moon. Both Anatolius and Dionysius Exiguus had (different) 19-year lunar cycles, which because of their common Metonic structure (being one of the most important applications of the cycle of Meton!), are called Metonic 19-year lunar cycles.

3) I conclude that you have no reasonable argument at all to restrain me from fulfilling my contribution to the Wikipedia page “Metonic cycle”. Actually, I would like to create a new subsection “Application in the Julian calendar” with references to Mc Carthy & Breen (2003), Declercq (2000), and Mosshammer (2008), and (this is my concession) without referring to Zuidhoek (2019). Please allow me to do that.

Let us try to clarify the ambiguities instead of obscure the facts!

Sincerely, Jan Zu (talk) 20:39, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since Jan Zu refuses to acknowledge the scope of the "Julian calendar" article and that the Metonic cycle is out of scope, I see no alternative but dispute resolution. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jan Zu. Jc3s5h (talk) 22:24, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Jc3s5h,

I declare that:

1) my name is Jan Zuidhoek (born 20-8-1938) and I live in Zwolle (Netherlands);

2) I have no more than one Wikipedia account, which is named Jan Zu;

3) my book is [Jan Zuidhoek (2019) Reconstructing Metonic 19-year Lunar Cycles (on the basis of NASA’s Six Millenium Catalog of Phases of the Moon): Zwolle] and has ISBN 9789090324678;

4) its editor JZ is myself (which is legal in the Netherlands);

5) my peer is Daniel P. Mc Carthy, the author of [Daniel P. Mc Carthy & Aidan Breen (2003) The ante-Nicene Christian Pasch De ratione paschali (The Paschal tract of Anatolius, bishop of Laodicea): Dublin], which has ISBN 9781851826971;

6) if your accusation “Jan Zu refuses to acknowledge the scope of the "Julian calendar" article and that the Metonic cycle is out of scope” means that I do not acknowledge that the Metonic cycle has no application in the Julian calendar then you are right just because of the example of the fact of science that the dates of the Metonic 19-year lunar cycle being part of Dionysius Exiguus’ Paschal table and of Bede’s Easter table are Julian calendar dates;

7) my only motive is to try to clarify ambiguities, witness my argument:

“Dear Jc3s5h,

1) Why do you ignore the difference between the terms ‘Metonic cycle’ (also called ‘cycle of Meton’) and ‘Metonic 19-year lunar cycle’?

2) The first three sentences of your argument are completely beside the point. Concerning your last sentence: if we consider Dionysius Exiguus’ Paschal table (this is a table for the computation of Easter, see for example Declercq (2000) 197-200 or www.janzuidhoek.net/Recondiony.htm) then we see that all dates in the table of the computist Dionysius Exiguus are Julian calendar dates. Unbelievable that you think that computus and Julian calendar are separate matter. Paschal tables are characterized by their lunar cycles, lunar cycles are always (from Anatolius to Bede) periodic sequences of Alexandrian calendar or Julian calendar dates of the Paschal full moon. Both Anatolius and Dionysius Exiguus had (different) 19-year lunar cycles, which because of their common Metonic structure (an application of the cycle of Meton!) are called Metonic 19-year lunar cycles.

3) I conclude that you have no reasonable argument at all to restrain me from fulfilling my contribution to the Wikipedia page “Metonic cycle”. Actually, I would like to create a new subsection “Application in the Julian calendar” with references to Mc Carthy & Breen (2003), Declercq (2000), and Mosshammer (2008), and (this is my concession) without referring to Zuidhoek (2019). Please allow me to do that.

Let us try to clarify the ambiguities instead of obscure the facts!

Sincerely, Jan Zu”.

Sincerely, Jan Zu (talk) 07:41, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Dear Jc3s5h,

8) my colleagues (among others Mc Carthy, Ó Cróinín, Warntjes, Mosshammer, Holford-Strevens) know me also as the author of the article [Zuidhoek, J. (2017) “The initial year of De ratione paschali and the relevance of its paschal dates”, Studia Traditionis Theologiae 26: 71-93], to which my book is a sequel;

9) the cycle of Meton has not only applications in traditional calendars: As a matter of fact, its historically most important application in the Julian calendar is the Metonic 19-year lunar cycle being part of Dionysius Exiguus’ Paschal table and of Beda Venerabilis’ Easter table) (DE and BV were great computists).

Let us try to clarify the ambiguities!

Sincerely, Jan Zu (talk) 09:51, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Dear Jc3s5h,

I am sorry, but it is not the (not computistical) Metonic (19-year) cycle itself which can be considered to be “this efficient computistical instrument”, but the (computistical) Metonic 19-year lunar cycle, which is by definition an application of the Metonic cycle in the Julian or in the Alexandrian calendar. The Metonic cycle was discovered by Meton or by the Babylonians in the fifth century BC; Anatolius’ (Metonic) 19-year lunar cycle was invented by Anatolius around AD 260 (on the basis of the Metonic cycle). Use this (or ask an expert to use this) to improve the paragraph in question of your Wikipedia page, please.

Sincerely, Jan Zu (talk) 23:34, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DEFAULTSORT edits

Dear Jc3s5h, In the Category:Time formatting bug]], I added a zero to Escher year before 10,000 in defaultsort so it would easy to put in numerical order.

Sincerely, User:Randey1970 15:15, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In your comment, "Category:Time formatting bug]]" is not proper markup in the wikitext editor, so I don't know what it means. To provide a useful link that we can discuss, please do the following:
  1. Go to the page you edited.
  2. Click the "View history" tab.
  3. In the little circles you see near the beginning of each edit listing, click the open circles until the edit just before yours (in time) has an open circle with a black dot, and is a little to the left, and your edit has the open circle with a black dot and is a little to the right.
  4. Click the box that says "Compare selected revisions".
  5. In your browser address bar, copy the URL to your clipboard.
  6. Add a reply here, and paste the URL of your edit from the previous step.
Jc3s5h (talk) 20:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Dear Jc3s5h,

You are right: the right reference is Zuidhoek (2017) 74. Thank you! Sincerely, Jan Zu (talk) 23:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Issue 38, January – April 2020

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On behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --15:57, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

why you undid my edit?

whats wrong with the external link I added to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_the_United_Kingdom ?

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