Talk:Def Leppard

confused (feedback)

Love bites was # 1,pour some sugar was #2. I have checked multiple charts on the internet that lsit #1 hits and also, a couple newspaper articles state that love bites was thier first (and only) #1 hit. I hope this clears some confusion.

--Activision45 02:44, 6 August 2006 (UTC)Activision45

guns'n'roses

Guns N' Roses wasn't really a 80's band. 20% of 80's years isn't comparable to a 80's band

TECHNICALLY INACCURATE. GUNS N' ROSES WAS FORMED IN 1985, MAKING THEIR 1980's TENURE HALF OF THAT DECADE.

Clunky

To original author(s): the contents box is entirely too damn big and clunky and lessens the impact of the opening paragraphs. Let's either cut down the number of sub-headings or fix the contents box or I'm going to. I love the article but the contents box is a fucking eyesore, so fix it please--Kwan-Trill 21:04, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

innacuracy

an innacuracy in the article:

rick allen replaced frank noon- not tony kenning. it was frank noon that replaced tony kenning. (tony kenning-frank noon-rick allen)

i fixed the innaccuracy. i'm adding my signature. Gringo300 16:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I am finally glad somebody else caught the mistake!

confused

I'm confused about the chart positions for Def Leppard and the confusion comes from an issue of Metal Edge, the leading hard rock magazine. I have a 1992 issue and in the Mail Bag section, a fan had written in to ask about the chart positions for the Def Leppard. Geri Miller, the editor for this magazine. Geri Miller was responsible for everything printed in this magazine and was the editor-in-chief in 1992. She provided the following information:

Love Bites #2 Pour some sugar on me #1 Hysteria as #3 Armageddon It #5.

I believe this information to be accurate. Can you please provide concrete evidence that Love Bites was #1. I'm not upset. Just confused.

I'm sorry for the errors- but I believe my information to be correct as this comes from the #1 hard rock magazine.

Check here. All of Def Leppard's singles' chart positions are listed ("Love Bites" #1, "Pour Some Sugar on Me" #2, "Armageddon It" #3, and "Hysteria" #10). They can also easily be verified by searching Billboard Magazine's web site. Confusion often results from reading different charts, but the correct overall pop chart is known as the Hot 100 chart (or the Pop Singles chart before 1983), but the abovementioned positions ("Love Bites" #2, "Pour Some Sugar on Me" #1, "Hysteria" #3, and "Armageddon It" #5) do not seem to match up with any chart. Hopefully this documentation will clear up the obvious confusion. DarkShattenjager 22:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)DarkShattenjager

classification

The band's classification as a cross between classic rock, glam rock and heavy metal is questionable - given the band's influences and the commonly associated bands with a similar sound, hard rock would probably be closer to the band's sound than classic rock. -- Phantompong

The above classification is a simple idea of the band based on the influences they have shown when they have played. That is why it is that way.

Photos

We could use more photos, the one we have is a very early one, a selection showing the band as they evolved over the years would be good --Djbrianuk 09:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Done. -- Phantompong

Photos restored, logo added

I've added the photos back in after they were removed by an anon IP, but moved them to the history section they're approximately from. Also added the Def Leppard Logo at the top. Djbrianuk 22:58, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Album sales figures

Any sources? The official site states Hysteria selling 16 million copies worldwide. --Lumijaguaari 08:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Check the Recording Industry Artists of America's searchable database of gold and platinum certifications. Note that these sales figures are the official figures for the United States, but the United States only. I do not know of an organization that provides such information for the rest of the world, other than there being some particular to their own countries, but there could be one somewhere. Also bear in mind that the RIAA awards certifications upon record labels' requests, so it is possible (ask The Fixx or John Denver) for an album, in actuality, to have sold significantly more copies than they are certified for having sold. Def Leppard's have gotten certifications recently enough that it does not seem likely that their sales are being ignored, but it is possible. Nielsen SoundScan is also a reliable source (and well-regarded by those in the industry, as evidenced by its use for the Billboard charts), but at least I do not believe it provides information to those outside of the industry.

Mailing List Links

Why do we have to keep changing the external links on the mailing lists? LepNet was around first. DefSolNet was formed afterwards for people that were sick of LepNet. Couldn't we have external links for both? --LanceManion1973

From one of the Many FAQ sites

Approximate worldwide sales figures (not checked with official numbers): On Through The Night: 1 million High 'N' Dry: 2 million Pyromania: 10 million Hysteria: 16 million Adrenalize: 7 million Retro Active: 1.7 million Vault - Greatest Hits: 6 million Slang: 2 million Euphoria: 1.2 million X: 200,000+

Nick

Discography?

The article really needs a discography section, it would be exceptionally kind for someone to do it. Thanks - Patman2648 05:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

lou gramm live guest appearance with def leppard?

i've been told that in 1992, right after vivian campbell joined def leppard, former foreigner singer lou gramm made a guest appearance with them on stage. this seems logical because vivian campbell played with lou gramm both on a lou gramm solo album and in the band shadow king, before he joined def leppard. however, i've been unable to find any documentaion of this alleged event. does anyone on here by any chance know anything about this? Gringo300 18:13, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Motley Crue

Def Leppard paving the way for Bon Jovi , Poison and Motley Crue is true. and for Poison and Bon Jovi. Motley Crue were not a pop metal band and their sound didn't change with every album.

Influences

David Bowie? Really?--71.56.145.54 08:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

re: chart positions, Guns N Roses, David Bowie

Chart positions: Billboard magazine is the oldest and most widely accepted source of chart positions for albums and singles, and I believe that is what was used for the singles rankings in the article. Of course, it's debateable just how accurately their charts measure popularity (in fact, Billboard has tweaked their formula in recent years to address this point), but they are as close to an official source as you're going to find.

GNR: Their greatest success came in the late 80s with Appetite for Destruction, which puts them (fairly or not) into the late 80s hair metal craze. Yeah, they managed some success in the early 90s with the Use Your Illusion albums, but by that time grunge/alternative rock had already taken over and they were definitely relics of a bygone era. And let's admit it -- Use Your Illusion I & II were 75% filler. You could take Lies, UYI I & II, and the Spaghetti Incident and come up with maybe 12 memorable songs, which still wouldn't be as good as the 12 on Appetite.

David Bowie: They've said as much in some interviews, and they covered a Mick Ronson (Bowie's former guitarist) song, "Only After Dark", which can be found on their Retroactive album.

British band = British English

A number of words like army, company, crowd, fleet, government, majority, mess, number, pack, and party may refer either to a single entity or the members of the set that compose it. Thus, as H. W. Fowler describes, in British English they are "treated as singular or plural at discretion"; Fowler notes noted that occasionally a "delicate distinction" is made possible by discretionary plurals: "The Cabinet is divided is better, because in the order of thought a whole must precede division; and The Cabinet are agreed is better, because it takes two or more to agree."[4] Also in British English, names of towns and countries take plural verbs when they refer to sports teams but singular verbs when they refer to the actual place: England are playing Germany tonight refers to a football game, but England is the most populous country of the United Kingdom refers to the country. In North American English, such words are invariably treated as singular.

Line-ups.

The line-ups have been taken away repeatedly. The line-ups help Def Leppard viewers show who was in the band at what time. I was a Def Leppard roadie briefly in the late 1980's and continue to try to preserve the truth as much as possible. Where as I agree unneeded items should not be put on the page, the line-ups hardly take any room and are vital to Def Leppard's past and present. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.88.207.195 (talk) 02:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

The member history is available is a simple neat list. Someone who hasn't got 2 clues about Wikipedia editing policy/guidelines keeps adding a cluttered up ugly table that simply duplicates the information already avaiable in the article. Not only that it violates WP:MoS and contains either duplicate/repeat links(on Wikipedia a word need only be linked once in an article) Bad enough the links are dupes but, in some cases, the twit keeps switching the proper links IE 'bass guitar' for the dab link 'bass' which could be any number of things...including a fish. Some people shouldn't be allowed to edit until they've read all of Wikipedia's Policies/Guidelines...especially the clutter makers 216.21.150.44 02:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

'Dshizt'

There is an authorized user who edited the Def Leppard section incorrectly. I believe that this user should be blocked from editing, especially because he has done things like that before to such sections as "Santa" and "Jesus".

[Warchild Bootleg]

On Tony Kenning's biography page, it states a reference to a bootleg called "Warchild". This should be placed on the discography section, because "First Strike" is on there, and it was also a bootleg.

Tag needed?

Is a tag really needed by their legacy? What is wrong with it that makes it not true. They are actually rock pioneers of their own rights with respects to the way they made music (putting harmonies together as one) and all that, so why is that tag really needed? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.136.219 (talk) 20:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

It's tagged because it reads like it was written by a 10 year old, starry eyed fanboy and there is not a citation in sight for what is essentially a peacock POV paragraph. See WP:CITE, WP:V, WP:NOR, WP:NPOV and WP:AWW... it essentially ignores them all. 156.34.216.116 21:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Genre?

Def Leppard's music has changed in the past 15 years, and whatever genre it is, it's missing from the list. I've really noticed that on the more recent albums, they sound a lot less like hard rock and a lot more like current rock. I don't know what the proper term would be, but I find that a fair number of songs really have elements of alternative or pop or something in there, and we need to identify what it is and put it on the list. - Rock Soldier

In addition, the band did indeed play Glam metal in the 1980's, but anons keep removing it. I don't want to start an edit war, but I think that glam metal should be brought back into the infobox. Can anybody help please? FMAFan1990 06:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, I added a reference FMAFan1990 09:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Your reference classifies glam metal as a "style" for them, the only genre it lists is rock. I don't see in any way how Def Leppard were glam metal. I definately think arena rock should be added to the genres though, and maybe pop metal.

--Rock Soldier 17:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

After going through all the Def Leppard albums, I am CERTAIN that there needs to be some changes to the genres. Their isn't a single reference to how much pop they worked into their music, and believe me, on albums like X there was a LOT of it. If you ask me, the only thing separating them from full-fledged pop was the lack of synthesizers. Here's the classification that I'd give:

• On Through the Night - Hard rock
• High 'n' Dry - Hard rock
• Pyromania - Hard rock
• Hysteria - Arena rock
• Adrenalize - Arena rock, pop rock
• Retro Active - Arena rock
• Slang - Industrial rock, Arena rock
• Euphoria - Arena rock
• X - Pop rock, arena rock
• Yeah! - Rock

--Rock Soldier 21:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Personal POV has no place on Wikipedia. Do you know what Pop is? The Beatles made Pop an artform and nary a synthesiser to be found. Only referenced content. And right now there are several referenced genres listed. No more required, none to be removed. 156.34.230.90 22:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm just comparing their music to other pop music of the time. And I know I haven't referenced the genres, but I really don't think I should have to. If you take a listen to music by a band whose music has been pure hard rock 100% of their career, like AC/DC or Deep Purple, and compare it to Def Leppard albums like X, or Adrenalize, or Slang, you really gain a perspective of how much these albums are NOT hard rock. If you compare such a rock band to the first three Def Leppard albums, the music very similar. Maybe I'm not listing the right genres for the albums, maybe arena rock and pop rock aren't the right genres, but I know one thing for sure: those later albums DEFINATELY aren't best described as hard rock.

And, I think it's worth mentioning that the sources citing the band as hard rock, heavy metal, NWOBHM, and glam metal also mention pop rock under styles.

--Rock Soldier 19:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

"I'm just comparing their music to other pop music of the time" = POV. "I haven't referenced the genres, but I really don't think I should have to."???? Have you not read WP:ATT, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE??? Wikipedia is built on these policies. It isn't built on "I really don't think I should have to". In fact, that is the exact opposite of what Wikipedia is here for. Read policies.... they're there for a reason. 156.34.208.227 00:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

What I mean is, the albums are so obviously not hard rock that it should be plain to see that it's not. Don't you agree? How can someone call those later albums hard rock?

--Rock Soldier 00:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[Pictures]

Who the hell keeps taking away the pictures that chronilogically fit with Def Leppard's history? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.193.46.130 (talk) 16:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Singles dischography

Acording to Billboard Bringin' On The Heartbreak (original) charted at 81 on the Hot 100. Also, Rock Brigade peaked at 106 on the Bubbling Under chart in '80. Verify if you like, but the info is accurate.

Def Leppard Page Edits

I am a very active editor of the Def Leppard Wikipedia page and I'm disappointed in the fact that someone keeps messing up the grammatical elements that keep the story up to Wikipedia's standards. Everyday, some anonymous user edits it with bad grammar and things that aren't needed on the page.

For example, a couple of days ago, the line was: "2007: Def Leppard have started their Downstage Thrust Tour". Not only is this bad grammar but it doesn't meet the standards needed. Eventually, we will have to lock Def Leppard for a while, but I hope that considerate people will watch out for errors like this that always have to be fixed.

Also, the Jeff Rich comments about him being a member have got to be stopped quickly and without comment. If we comment about it, it only provokes them to change it. We should probably lock these users, but no action has been taken yet.

Thanks.

Jeff Rich

• Though he wasn't a member, he should be noted as a 'touring musician'. Alterego269 06:13, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

You see, I have a different opinion of this. I believe he should be noted as a key source of inspiration for Rick Allen's drumming career while he was resting, but he wasn't much of a touring musician or a member of the band. Besides, it takes out the loyalty image that is seen when someone thinks of Def Leppard. I think everyone's prepared to edit Jeff Rich in like that.

For more information, see Rick Allen.

Def Leppard band members link

Why does someone keep removing the Def Leppard band members link from the Band members section? Alterego269 02:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Def Leppard Template and Singles

• Why does someone keep messing with the Def Leppard template? It is fine the way it is, and somebody keeps messing with the links for the singles, and they read as 're-directed'. Now I had them prepared so they direct straight to the page, NO RE-DIRECTING. Please stop Now. - Alterego269 21:46, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Someone has to keep correcting the format because you've never taken the time to read the Musician project guidelines and examples to see how its supposed to be properly done. If you would just learn policies and guidelines rather than tryinf to make up your own rules all your edits wouldn't have to be reverted or corrected. 156.34.215.210 22:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

• Whatever. You still are very ignorant by not providing the correct links for the Def Leppard songs. - Alterego269 23:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Def Leppard photos

Why the hell do people always keep replacing the Def Leppard photos with the stupid 2007 tour ones, and especially in the era while the band were getting recognition from High n Dry and Pyromania, and then the era when the band's recording for Hysteria was halted because of the drummer's accident?

Those 07 photos DO NOT make any sense, and I say change them because they do not make sense to the past.

• AGREE TOTALLY. NEEDS TO BE CHANGED!

• Ummmm Do you enjoy talking to yourself??? Just wondering. The images are free. Not placed very well. But free. Something Wikipedia is short on. They can't be replaced with fair-use images as per policy. But they can be moved into a gallery in a more appropriate section. Read WP:GALLERY to learn how to edit properly. 156.34.216.162 21:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, forgot the bolded point. Wikipedia are not short of images, actually. You've just removed the ones that note the history of the band. Much more qualified users than you and I have removed the content, as per their knowledge of Wikipedia's policies. Here's an idea...how about you add them to the Downstage Thrust Tour page that someone has created. There, it will serve a better home because it is clearly devoted to the 2007 tour.

Pop rock

I don't think any of their first four albums were pop rock. I don't know about their later albums, but I think it should be noted that their first four were not part of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrimReaper39614 (talk • contribs) 02:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The edit wars over genre are starting to get out of hand. Now we have people citing them, as if AMG's opinion is somehow definitive. I say glam metal and hard rock and whatever else is being used at the moment are merely styles or subgenres, and all that needs to be listed is rock. Perhaps the various relevant WikiProjects (Music genres, Albums, etc.) will address this. —Zeagler (talk) 23:10, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I refuse to agree that any of the later albums are not pop rock. Just listen to them, there's nothing hard rock about them, and hardly anything glam metal! It's very, very pop, starting with Hysteria, and progressively increasing up to X, before returning to their roots with Yeah!. Hysteria and Adrenalize were still more glam metal, I agree, but the later albums like Euphoria and X were extremely pop. Can anyone really disagree with that?

--Rock Soldier (talk) 02:51, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think people can disagree with that. Really, though, who comes to Wikipedia to learn what subgenre a particular band or album falls into? That's why these genre listings need to be simplified... —Zeagler (talk) 03:15, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I added the subgenres because I just couldn't stand to look at those pages and see those albums described as hard rock, as if they were 100% hard rock and nothing else, like AC/DC or something. Well, take a listen to band like AC/DC whose music really is hard rock and it'll become clear just how much those later albums aren't hard rock. Then compare it to the first three Def Leppard albums, and it'll come clear just how rock 'n' roll those first few albums really were. So I insist that pop rock stay mentioned as one of their genres, it was a much more prominent genre than heavy metal for them if you ask me.

--Rock Soldier (talk) 14:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, even though Hysteria was definitvely "pop rock", I still do think that songs like Run Riot, Rocket, or Gods Of War fit more into the "arena rock" subgenre, and ironically, Run Riot does sound like hard rock.. And it should be noted that Adrenalize is also mellow rock, because most of the songs on that album were a bit more "depressing" or "calming" instead of "happy" or "melodious".. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.225.14.190 (talk) 21:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I attempted to use "arena rock" to describe the albums, but a certain user decided to declare arena rock to not be an actual genre and just a term used for something, and deleted it from all the pages. Even so, even that doesn't quite fit for everything, because in the later years, some of the songs were just plain pop. Seriously. You could hardly call X a rock album. As for Adrenalize, I see where you're getting the idea of mellow rock, but I'd say it's still just pop-rock like the rest, and all those gentle songs are just pop/rock power ballads.

--Rock Soldier (talk) 20:07, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Quick comment: Arena Rock isn't a genre (Read the article's lead section for more information regarding that), buddy. Scarian^Talk 20:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The only justification I'm seeing for any (sub)genre tag that people want to apply is "I think..." Well, that's not what Wikipedia is. And any citation you can provide (like All Music Guide) is just going to be someone else's opinion, so the most you can say is "AMG believes Hysteria is pop/rock and glam metal", or whatever. It's pointless to go any deeper than "Rock". —Zeagler (talk) 17:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Well if AMG won't be accepted, how can we list any other genre? If you look at it like that, calling any album any genre is going by someone's opinion. Who's to say which opinions should be cited and which shouldn't? And who's to say that saying "Rock" isn't an opinion? If you argue that citing a source for a genre is using someone else's opinion, any genre listed, no matter what, is an opinion. The first genre listed is the first guy's opinion, and any further referenced genres are all other people's opinions. So what are we supposed to do?

--Rock Soldier (talk) 01:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

List no genres until a consensus has been reached. (And no opinions should be cited unless they're presented as such.) —Zeagler (talk) 01:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

The Def Leppard sound is very unique;it's not always the same crap over and over again. They started out as a hard rock band by the time the new wave of british heavy metal bands were rising, and became pop-ish after hysteria came out. And it's not opinion, it's COMMON SENSE. Really, how can you even consider albums like X or Slang "hard rock"? Hard rock has to sound "hard", or reverse it so it looks like "rock hard". I heard that "rock hard" sound in OTTN, HND, and Pyromania. Hysteria only focused on producing a "hard rock" Thriller (Michael Jackson's best selling album in 82), since pop music was comepeting well against hair metal in the mid 1980's. 66.225.14.190 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:41, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

THANK YOU! That is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm glad to finally have found someone who sees things the way I do, though I must say it's long overdue. People don't seem to be able to get past the fact that Def Leppard is overall considered a hard rock band. No matter what, those later albums like X and Slang are pop-rock. If you were to hear a song from one of those albums on the radio and didn't recognize it as Def Leppard, would you say "man, that is hard rock!"? HELL NO! Those are pop albums! Face it! I dare one person here to step up and say "I think that X is a hard rock album." Really people, why is it so hard to agree on something that should be common sense?

--Rock Soldier (talk) 02:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Schizophrenia - a mental illness characterized by impairments in reality perception most commonly manifesting as paranoid hallucinations, bizarre delusions or disorganized speech. A common Wikipedia example is when a user posts an opinion under a false account or as an anonymous IP... and then returns the next day and agrees with himself. See above A false consensus attempt by way of sockpuppetry is usually frowned upon here. 156.34.216.38 (talk) 03:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cholmes75 (talk • contribs)

2008 Tour

I dunno why, but a BUNCH OF ASSHOLES keep reverting the "2000-present" section and removing the 2008 tour info. Then they call it "vandalism".. Well, I'm just adding what it said on the bands' OFFICIAL FUCKING SITE!! They already scheduled their 2008 tour and more locations may be added later on! Please stop removing it.. If you don't think I'm telling the truth, well why don't you visit their site at www.defleppard.com and look at the "Tour" page.

66.225.14.190 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:30, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Calm down, guy. Recentism is a legitimate concern. —Zeagler (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2007 (UTC)