Talk:Hsiung Feng III

File:Hsiung Feng III missile on display.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Jeez

Are children in charge of this article? Who came with these totally unrealistic (stupid) performance "estimates"? See Russian wiki for data that sounds reasonable. Mach 10... not even in wet dreams. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.97.149.147 (talk) 20:05, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I attempted to alter the article to refer to more reasonable speed estimates (to be clear - there are no official figures released for the performance of this missile). It was reverted back to refer to "hypersonic" and "Mach 10" with an attached "source" from "The Sun", a UK tabloid newspaper.

This missile is raqmjet-powered - this can be observed to be the case. Official information also states ramjet propulsion. any reference to "hypersonic" speeds has come from journalists, not from any technological knowledge.

There exists today, no propulsions system capable of air-breathing hypersonic flight (other than *highly* experimental craft that are far from operational use.) at HIGH altitude, let-alone sea-skimming heights (which is an order of magnitude greater challenge). It can be observed that the missile *is* propelled with ramjets (more advanced concepts would look appreciably different) and physical law prevents ramjets from operating much faster than mach 4-5. It is also widely speculated that the missile leans heavily on technology reverse-engineered from the Russian Kh-31 series of ramjet propelled missiles, which it is visually similar to, which also operate in a ramjet-limited Mach-3 envelope.

To conclude - a claim of "hypersonic" or "Mach 10+" flight is an *extraordinary* claim that requires extraordinary evidence, not a quote from a tabloid newspaper journalist.

I have reverted the text again to reflect this. Hypersonic, air breathing, sea-level flight needs to be confirmed as possible with available technology before it can be confirmed to be in use in this missile. And further to that, any speculation as to the performance of this missile, in the absence of official information, must conform to reasonable estimations, and not ridiculous click-bait hyperbole.212.194.114.50 (talk) 11:22, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Also removed a reference to a maximum range of up to 15,000km... This is a fantasy figure. It may as well have said it can travel at warp 10.

References from journalistic media have some use, but when they are speculating technical specifics, and are waaaaaay off the mark (not just for this missile but for what is physically *possible*) then they can be reasonably rejected.

15,000km is a good range for an ICBM, speculating that this 7m long sea-skimming weapon could do this is...ridiculous. Like saying that the new BMW 7-series comes with anti-gravity because a tabloid journalist in Texas said so.

I get that wikipedia reports whatever can be referenced, there has to be some room for discretion as not all sources are credible. If a tabloid said this missile ran on unicorn blood (which is, I kid you not, about as ridiculous as saying it can travel at 3km/s for 15,000km at sea level) would it get published here? I hope not.212.194.114.50 (talk) 11:43, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

This missile is not, cannot be, hypersonic.

If someone insists on reverting the reasonable changes I made without substantiation, then I cannot help you. Keep it as highly inaccurate if you wish. There are even contradictions within the body of the text and the main references do not support the speculation that is shown in the article, in one instance, the words "it is certain that" precede an unsubstantiated guess.

Note that this is a military item, whose actual performance figures have not, unsurprisingly, been released to the public. References to "hypersonic" and "Mach 10+" and "15,000km range" are entirely speculation and just because they have been seen in print, does not make them substantiated.

Physical law prevents this missile from having the stated performance. This article, as it stands today, has been deliberately made inaccurate.

By the way, this is a quote from the main reference:

"While the ministry has not released any information on the capabilities of the HF-3 missile, military magazines surmise that the missile may reach speeds of between Mach 2.5 and Mach 3 at a range of between 150km and 200km."

Exactly in line with the modifications I have twice tried to make but were reverted without a word of discussion. I dont know how to issue warnings to people (I honestly cant figure it out, do I use the "template" here? in the body of the article?) but one may be appropriate here. 212.194.114.50 (talk) 16:05, 15 December 2016 (UTC)