Talk:Liposuction

Psychology -- suggested changes

People who are looking to undergo the procedure of liposuction should have reasonable expectations. They should also have a plan to change their way of living as far as diet and exercise.

This statement is misleading and a form of victim blaming that suggest that bad outcomes, which will happen because the body has a limited number of fat cells and when some are removed the remaining cells experience hypertrophy and visceral fat increases, and this is an outcome that cannot be controlled by the patient. Many doctors, in fact, do liposuction on people who are of their top fitness levels, so there would be no way to improve upon their diet and exercise. The problem with fat redistribution lies in the biology of fat, and the fault lies in the way practitioners of liposuction mislead their clients and do not prepare them for true dangers, acute problems, or long-term health and contour problems causes innately by removing fat cells.

We might also add information to the topic of the "Psychology of Liposuction" regarding that some people have to deal with surgical assault and having their bodies modified in non-consented ways when they are under anesthesia. Following surgical harm, victims are gas lit, denied, minimized, slandered, and their are cover-ups and gas clauses, similar in a sense to rape victims. Juliet Sabine (talk) 22:55, 25 November 2018 (UTC) Juliet Sabine (talk) 23:01, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Not happy with the statement on 'Psychology' that focuses on a 'patient's expectations.' That is not really about psychology but it is a dog whistle in a sense that surgeons et al use to as a prophylactic excuse any misrepresentations about liposuction and any mistakes they themselves might make.DrCoyote (talk) 01:31, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree with you, DrCoyote. I propose we remove this misleading statement from the page. Juliet Sabine (talk) 01:43, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. Rather than removing the statement outright, it should be rephrased to reflect what the cited source actually says: "Patients should be generally healthy and demonstrate a commitment to long-term lifestyle changes including both healthy diet and exercise. Additionally, patient goals and expectations should be appropriate and realistic. Furthermore, patients who are either obese or who have generalized adiposity, adolescents, and patients with certain preexisting medical conditions that place them in preclusive risk may not be suitable candidates."

"Reasonable" and "realistic" expectations are not the same thing. And the source says nothing about "a plan to change their way of living", it says that they should be generally healthy and demonstrate a commitment to lifestyle changes", meaning a patient who is a lard-ass couch potato and intends to remain that way isn't a liposuction candidate.

Context matters. The statement in the article doesn't provide the proper context. ~Anachronist (talk) 06:56, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I read the article referenced in the 'Psychology' section and the sentences on the wiki page don't reflect that article at all. AND even if the statement was made to reflect the article (patients should be....) is not an issue of 'psychology.' Why not just remove that heading and replace it with What Doctors Tell Their Patients During a Consult (or something like that). Using the word psychology automatically implies that there is a high chance of a psychological issue with the patient.The problem with this is that it is biased and this page is supposed to be unbiased.People who promote liposuction have a certain litany (both in advertisements and journal articles) that is biased; not neutral. Because there is no evidence base that actually supports what they are saying. So I think the heading should be replaced with something neutral. (ps:I don't know why it shows my name with the red; I actually created a page etc when I signed up) DrCoyote (talk) 22:54, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Liposuction is done as part of many procedures including but not limited to: breast reduction, breast reconstruction after cancer, stem cell harvesting, face-lifts, abdominoplasties, and for supposedly cosmetic purposes. Liposuction procedures are often sold to healthy, fit people with the promise of smoothing a generic contour deformity that is exercise and diet resistant. Fit people don't need to change their already healthy lifestyles. No matter how fit and active a person is, the body has only a limited amount of fat cells. Liposuction leaves a person with less fat cells, and the remaining cells get larger; the reason the body changes is not a matter of psychology or behavior, it's biology. Large cells are less effective and change metabolism and deposition. Here on this liposuction page there is the quote, "While the suctioned fat cells are permanently gone, after a few months overall body fat generally returns to the same level as before treatment. This is despite maintaining the previous diet and exercise regimen. While the fat returned somewhat to the treated area, most of the increased fat occurred in the abdominal area. Visceral fat - the fat surrounding the internal organs - increased, and this condition has been linked to life-shortening diseases such as diabetes, stroke, and heart attack.” Diet and exercise or mindset cannot overcome biology and it's irresponsible to tell people that it can. This statement under psychology is misleading propaganda. Wikipedia needs to do better than that. This ought to be removed. Juliet Sabine (talk) 08:38, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

OK, I get it, and I agree it should be removed. My original disagreement was based on the fact that the sentence being discussed misrepresented the source, and if we are going to cite a source, any statement we make should be accurate. But I agree, if it has nothing to do with psychology, remove it. I have just done so.

@DrCoyote: answering your p.s.: Your contribution history shows a total of four edits, all to this talk page. Your username is red because there is no content on the page User:DrCoyote. And you have no deleted contributions, so it wasn't deleted. Perhaps you had created it but forgot to click the "Save" button? I do that occasionally myself. ~Anachronist (talk) 06:28, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

You are probably right (re: red text and no talk page for me). I set this up a while ago so I'll have to look into what's going on (since I've contributed more than four edits) Thanks for removing the 'psychology section.' DrCoyote (talk) 01:21, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

@DrCoyote: It's also possible that you have contributed while logged out, without knowing it. That happens to me occasionally also. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:54, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for removing that, ~Anachronist (talk). There are a few other issues on this Liposuction page I'd like to talk about in this Talk section as soon as I have time. Also, can you remind me how I answer on a Talk page when the margins are getting so far to the right? As you can see, I just moved mine one to the left. What is the correct protocol? Juliet Sabine (talk) 05:52, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

If you want to reply to someone but it's already too far to the right, you can use the {{od}} 'outdent' template like I just did. If you want to start a new conversation, which sounds like what you have in mind, then create a new section on this page. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:10, 1 December 2018 (UTC)