Talk:Stanley Williams

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Error in "Conviction" section

Hey guys, look at the sentence which starts right after the fifth reference link. it goes:

"...and government informants.[5] scene matched test shells from the shotgun owned by Stanley Williams. No second examiner verified his findings. The Defense claims this expert's methodology was "junk science at best." [6]"

Notice how "scene" is not capitalized, it seems that some of the article was removed, and now the sentence is only half there.

From an earlier version of the article it reads:

"...and government informants.[5]

Williams claims that the police found "not a shred of tangible evidence, no fingerprints, no crime scenes of bloody boot prints. They didn't match my boots, nor eyewitnesses. Even the shotgun shells found conveniently at each crime scene didn't match the shotgun shells that I owned." However, the prosecution's firearms expert, a sheriff's deputy, testified during trial that the shotgun shell recovered from the Yang murder crime scene matched test shells from the shotgun owned by Stanley Williams. No second examiner verified his findings. The Defense claims this expert's methodology was "junk science at best." [6]"

I don't know if the part of the article was removed for a good reason but someone should at least fix the sentence structure so that it makes sense.

Thanks for pointing that out. The text has been added back in as requested. // Pathoschild 08:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

IRC Channel

IRC channel with up-to-the-minute Tookie news: [1].

Blacks on jury

My source for the "one black on jury" claim is the recollection of the prosecutor (see Daily Breeze article and the DA response to the clemency petition. The "no blacks on the jury" meme was thrown out by the pro clemency side and I have not seen a verifiable, confirmed source of that statement other than by the pro clemency group. Calwatch 05:17, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

---

The juror, William McLurkin, was born in the Philippines, as was his mother. The trial record demonstrates that none of the lawyers -- and particularly the prosecutor -- thought Mr. McLurkin was black. During jury selection, three jurors were asked whether the fact that they were black would influence them. The prosecutor struck each of these jurors. Neither Mr. McLurkin nor any of the other 79 potential jurors were asked these questions. The only inference is that none of the lawyers thought Mr. McLurkin was black. Mr. McLurkin looked Filipino. The District Attorney has supplied Mr. McLurkin’s death certificate, which does not have a picture, as an exhibit. What the District Attorney fails to supply is Mr. McLurkin’s driver’s license, which does have his photograph.3 (Ex. 11)

http://www.cm-p.com/pdf/executiveclemency_reply.pdf

Well, do we have a photograph? My assumption based on the read was that Mr. McLurkin was probably born from an American father stationed in the Phillipine Islands. I'd like to see the photograph, but I am not going to say unequivocally that he was "Filipino". Edited to correct the contention. Calwatch 00:36, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

"ten light-skined" jurors

My basis for this is my own observation of the so-called "white community" who many times doen't even know that they have Oriental, American Indian, Negro, Middle Eastern, or other minority ancestries within their own genealogy chart.

I also am a graduate of Thurgood Marshall College, formerly Third World College, at the University of California San Diego (UCSD).

WB2 00:20, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

---

again i challenge your characterization of there being a "white community" 'so called' or otherwise, and assert your personal observation to be moot.

Williams' children

Both the media and the Los Angeles District Attorney have been driving attention toward two of Stanley Williams' children, Stanley Williams, Jr., and Lafayette Jones. This may potentially give our readers the biased opinion that all of Williams' children are murderers and rapists; are there any other known children we could mention who do not hold a criminal record? Hall Monitor 20:14, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I had the opprotunity to listen to Tookie talk over speaker phone to [Junior_State_of_America|JSA] and the claim that he has a son named Lafayette Jones are false. --Phoenix Hacker 06:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The Tookie.jpg image

As this is an AP photo, isn't it copyrighted and therefore unuseable by us? Zoe (216.234.130.130 22:24, 12 December 2005 (UTC))

Maintained innocence.

I've seen "To this day he has maintained his innocence" added and removed a couple times today, citing POV. I'm currious though, it seems to me that while the "To this day" is either POV or bad editorial style, that he's maintained his innocence is quite likely public record. As I'm new here I've stayed out of it, any thoughts? CanadianGuy 23:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that ""to this day" is poor. "Williams maintains his innocence" or "He claims to be innocent of the murders" might be better. Or do you have a suggestion? It seems appropriate to note briefly that he protests his conviction. Even in very recent interviews he has repeated his claim of innocence. -Willmcw 23:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

He says that he's innocent? Well, we should just let him out then! 70.111.10.89 23:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Certainly it is not uncommon for convicted criminals to maintain their innocence, or to deny the validity of their trial. Just for comparison, I checked to see how Wikipedia articles on a few other convicts handle their assertions of innocence. From Ethel and Julius Rosenberg:

To the very end, the couple denied all charges and insisted they were innocent, but they were executed at New York's Sing Sing Correctional Facility in 1953, despite protests in the United States and abroad.

From Sacco and Vanzetti:

Nicola Sacco ... and Bartolomeo Vanzetti ... were two Italian anarchists, who were arrested, tried, and electrocuted in Massachusetts in 1927 on charges of murder ... although there was much doubt regarding their guilt.

From Alger Hiss:

After two trials, Hiss was convicted of perjury in 1950, although subsequent evidence of prosecutorial misconduct has cast some doubt on these proceedings. Hiss continued to maintain his innocence, but ultimately failed in his life-long goal of exoneration by the U.S. Supreme Court.

From Charles I of England:

Charles refused to enter a plea, claiming that no court had jurisdiction over a monarch. He believed that his own authority to rule had been given to him by God when he was crowned and anointed, and that the power wielded by those trying him was simply that which grew out of a barrel of gunpowder.

No doubt more examples could be found. -EDM 23:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Trying to cover the spectrum here, a couple more. From Lyndon LaRouche:

In December 1988, a federal jury in Alexandria, Virginia convicted LaRouche and his associates, and LaRouche was sentenced to fifteen years in prison. ... LaRouche supporters insisted that LaRouche was jailed, not for any violation of the law, but for his beliefs.

From Martha Stewart:

Following Stewart's conviction, a message was posted on her website, reading, in part, "I am obviously distressed by the jury's verdict but I continue to take comfort in knowing that I have the confidence and enduring support of my family and friends. I will appeal the verdict and continue to fight to clear my name. I believe in the fairness of the judicial system and remain confident that I will ultimately prevail."

-EDM 00:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Last words

Will Tookie's Last words be posted up on this site?

If he has any, they will probably be added to the article. Evil Monkey - Hello 04:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Updating

I would recommend that people don't immediately update the article to say that is has died at 0:01 AM PST. There could be a last minute temporary stay (as in the case of Eric Nance) or just delays with preparing for the execution. It will be best to wait until the death is confirmed. Evil Monkey - Hello 04:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

O brave new Wiki, that hath such optimists in it. -EDM 05:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and did it when they said they injected him with the poison --Stilanas 08:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Nothing announced yet...

They're apparently waiting word from the 9th Circuit over a final appeal before doing anything.

Victims

Two questions - I'm pretty new here. There are pictures of the victims available. They are crime scene photo's and I believe considered public domain. 1) Does this meet the criteria for posting pictures and 2) I personnaly believe that adding these pictures puts this whole discussion into perspective - am I wrong? --Geneb1955 07:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Unprotection request

Can someone please unprotect this article? I have been contributing to it for a number of days and would appreciate the opportunity to continue doing so. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:12, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

What is there you could possibly edit? Nothing has been announced yet... — Preceding unsigned comment added by BlindJacka (talk • contribs)

I'll unprotect as soon as we get official word of his death... NSLE _(T+C+CVU) 08:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Fine, here you go. [2] Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:27, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

People, leave this page for a while. Can't you just let him die in peace. This is degrading gbrandt 08:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

VANDALISM?

Where?

You two Admin's??

65.241.54.148 08:17, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

There's no vandalism at the moment because it's protected. ;) // Pathoschild 08:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

When will we know?

When will we know when he is gone? Is there a website you all are looking at?

Main Page, Recent Deaths

65.241.54.148 08:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Clemency for this monster?

Blowing an elderly asian couple away, and their daughter, for a few bucks in the register, bragging about such a cowardly act, threatening the jurors - and this happened over 25 years ago! He's had all those years to live while his victims rot in the ground.

Hard to believe anyone could possibly want clemency for this criminal. Needle should have been in his arm two decades ago. TFN.