Talk:Wiradjuri

Changes

I've attempted make some changes in order to ensure the page uses non-racist language, partially capitalization of 'Aboriginal' and have made use of 'Aboriginal people' rather than 'Aborigines'. I also removed the reference to alcohol contributing to the decline in population. Not denying is was a contributing factor, I just want to find a citation before putting it back in. Fizban 14:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Reversions of edits made by 203.54.186.83

• I have reverted edits made by 203.54.186.83 (talk · contribs) who was at the time breaching a block. He has been advised that logging in and editing while blocked is a breach of policy at Talk:Gundagai, New South Wales. He has definitely seen the advice and is aware of its implications. As per Wikipedia:Blocking policy#Evasion of blocks: Edits made by blocked users while blocked may be reverted. Further commentary about my actions can be made on my talk page or at the Wikipedia:Requests for comment/203.54.*.* which I have filed.--A Y Arktos\^talk 00:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Name meaning

As inappropriate as the manner in which this anon has contested the meaning of "Wiradjuri" is, I have to agree with him/her that it probably does not mean "people of the three rivers". Most peoples in the area are named after their word for "no" (e.g. Kamilaroi word for "no" is "kamil"). The Wiradjuri word for "no" happens to be wirrai, which confirms my suspicion. --Ptcamn 14:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Ptcamn, what is your ref for: "The Wiradjuri word for "no" happens to be wirrai..."??

Mathews, R. H. (1904). "The Wiradyuri and Other Languages of New South Wales". The Journal of the Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland. 34: 284–305. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

The spelling wirai is given by Günther, James (1892). "Grammar and Vocabulary of the Aboriginal dialect called Wirradhuri". In Fraser, John (ed.). An Australian Language. Sydney: Government printer. pp. 56–120 of appendix. --Ptcamn 06:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

TY, TY Ptcamm. It seems there is some sense here. I think it was Howitt (or was it Prof Elkin, I'm not sure I have all their publications and papers here but lazy) waxed on re the No thing and justified it, but culturally it means other than that also. Tindale isnt really an authority apart on renaming stuff and recoding stuff, then obscuring it. The stuff he hid isnt too bad re its veracity, but the stuff he published I'd take with a huge grain of salt.

Elkin, Tindale or Howitt werent around 10 kya ago to say "These people are now named the Wiradjuri" so the sound (of the word) origin needs to be traced. I dounbt if Tindale had anything to do with the three rivers thingy. Morelike, Peter Kabiala or someone like that. Have you ever noticed a lot of location name supposedly mean 'quiet place by the river'. That is what gets told to people if they get too nosey and they go publish it. When some go wanting cultural info, they get told something, they go away happy, the real info is protected and all are happy. It works well I think. By the time anyone gets to knowing what words mean from their own cognitive ability, they know to not publish some words, so also join the 'quiet place by a river' brigade.

• No problem, cite your source. The source, for the present meaning is I think Norman Tindale who is quite possibly mistaken but definitely an authority. There are no doubt more up to date sources. As of this morning the link to the Tindale page referenced in the article is down. However, the NSW National Parks and Wildlife service gives Wiradjuri means 'people of the three rivers', these rivers being the Macquarie, Lachlan and Murrumbidgee [1] and they are citing a printed publication: Heritage Office (HO) and Department of Urban Affairs and Planning (DUAP) 1996. Regional Histories: Regional Histories of New South Wales. Sydney. --A Y Arktos\^talk 21:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't find a source specifically saying that Wiradjuri is derived from "no", unfortunately, but this comes close:

Fraser, John (1892). An Australian Language... Sydney: Government printer. Of these tribes, the Kamalarai, Walarai, Ngaiamba, Bakanji, Wiradhari, the Associated Tribes, the Ngarego, the Kuringgai, are named already established and in use; and most of them are formed from the local word for 'no,' and thus describe more the speech than the people.

--Ptcamn 06:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

To my memory the 'NO' refers to the negative as per linguistic negatives. It doesnt mean the word "No". I don't do linguistics (the science of linguistics i.e. which is where that 'No' comes from)but know the wiradjui lannguage and culture pretty well. A lot copy that 'Wiradjui = No' material not realisng it is not about word definition but linguistic structure. I just do wiradjuri word definition tied to where the word refers to. Linguistics/archaeology claim there is just one true 'word' as such which is 'sign'. There are multiple words if Australia's Indigenous languages are considered. Because Indigenous language has been mostly separated from what it refers to (culture) the archs/linguists then think they can take possession. Its like the rock art battles where some archs claim rock art must be preserved in its 20kya state because current day Indigenous people are painting over them, (a cultural practice as part of ongoing culture). So linguistics may tell us that wiradjuri = No. It doesn't. The word means what it does similar to 'sign's' referent = sign, or words mean what they do not what they don't.

Semi-protection

I have semiprotected this articles as per the discussion at Talk:Gundagai, New South Wales:

I will similarly semi-protect any related articles if I notice any abusive edits being carried out from the same IP range - abusive edits refers to the tone of the edit summary as well as the actual edit itself.

Oh go away Artkos. Go and make a total pest of yourself elsewhere not where others are trying to do stuff.

All editors should be aware of Wikipedia policies and guidelines, specifically: No original research, Verifiability, No personal attacks, Civility and Etiquette. Any editors breaching any of the policies will be blocked and their contributions reverted.

Recommencing editing in less than the block period is a breach of the Blocking policy.

All editors have also been put on notice that comments on talk pages should be signed. Unsigned comments may be reverted.

Any comments about the semiprotection should be directed to the relevant Request for Comment.--A Y Arktos\^talk 21:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, u have put the reference in for the meanign of the word 'Wirad.juri'.

When u reference content, put the full reference.  For that word u went as far as the SW Slopes part of the reference within DEC but then didnt go to the core reference.  So your reference isnt correct.

Then examine the core reference and see if it is credible.

It happens that it isnt as anyone who knows can see by the meaning given.

You need to find a linguistics reference or one written by an early ethnographer which will give a meaning totally different from three rivers.

You are after a meaning for the word, not a location of the wiradjuri people. Get that? I doubt it. Defining words is a core skill taught at primary school but apparently not known well enough here by some to spot an error in a publication from HO/DUAP via DEC which is why so much purported Indigenous history is incorrect. It gets recorded by inexperienced people with errors perpetuated. Sometimes though too, incorrect meanings get published to hide cultural aspects which makes sites such as here, comic book fairy stories.

If that word meant 'three rivers' it would have the wiradjuri word for river in it and the word for three. It doesnt – does it. Get it! Idiot means stupid person not the largest city in France.