Template talk:Ashikaga clan family tree

Reference source

The format of this version of the family tree here was modified from a "pedigree" chart in Ackroyd's translation of Tokushi Yoron (p.298); however, Ackroyd only included 14 shoguns -- not 15. This causes me to recognize a plausible problem having to do with the inclusion of Ashikaga Yoshiteru's brother, Ashikaga Yoshiaki. Which is the better choice?

• Ackroyd, Joyce. (1982) Lessons from History: The Tokushi Yoron. Brisbane: University of Queensland Press. 10-ISBN 070221485X/13-ISBN 9780702214851; OCLC 7574544

This seemed like the reasonable place to raise this modest question about the template? --Tenmei (talk) 13:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Explaining changes

星光下的人 -- Your format changes are significant. Your edit introduces several innovative differences in this graphic overview of the familial and dynastic relationships. Our ability to interpret and evaluate your work here would be helped by citing its source.

Please explain the specific reasons for the changes you have made. For example, please clarify how the dotted-lines should be construed in this revised family tree.

See also User talk:星光下的人#Explaining changes. --Tenmei (talk) 14:30, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

dotted-lines means 養子（ようし），same use to the revision before my edit.——星光下的人 (talk) 22:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

You misunderstand my question about the dotted lines. Let's agree to set it aside for the moment. We can return to it after a preliminary issue is resolved.

Please identify the reliable source which is the basis for your edits? --Tenmei (talk) 01:03, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

I have none reliable source,my edit based on Japanese wiki,if wrong,just move it.--星光下的人 (talk) 01:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

星光下的人 -- Perhaps you misunderstand my question. I was not asking about your intent. Instead, shouldn't we work together to mitigate the ways in which a reader is likely to struggle with this graphic?

For example, Shogun Yoshimasa was succeeded by Shogun Yoshihisa (Yoshimasa's natural son), then by Shogun Yoshitane (Yoshimasa's first adopted son), and then by Shogun Yoshizumi (Yoshimasa's second adopted son). The Ashikaga relationships are not easy or obvious. What level of detail is better or best? --Tenmei (talk) 04:34, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know what your meaning......Say another way,plz?--星光下的人 (talk) 07:06, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

The edits you made are justifiable, verifiable, correct ... but at the same time, it cannot be said that your format is best because it is not easily "readable". In other words, the data which is visually presented is not easily scanned left-to-right, top-to-bottom. Let's work together to tweak your work in a series of small changes so that you can recognize ways to improve the next family tree you create.

For example, Yoshinori and his progeny are moved left slightly in order to clarify the fraternal relationship with Yoshimochi. Similarly, Yoshimi was moved up in order to clarify the fraternal relationship with Yoshikatsu, Masatomo and Yoshimasa. Do you see how moving Yoshiteru right clarifies his relationship with his brother Yoshiaki?

Also, please notice how the sequence of shogunal succession is made easier to grasp quickly. The superscript numbers also emphasize other places in the family tree which need to be made more "readable". Do you follow my reasoning here? --Tenmei (talk) 14:51, 29 June 2011 (UTC)