User talk:Jimbo Wales

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Please delete the Please help us reach our 2010 goal: $16 million USD box at the top. Thank you. WAS 4.250 (talk) 20:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

You lost me there. Why?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps because it is already the third month of 2011? The message possibly projects the image that either "we" are careless in the maintenance of the project, allowing apparent old messages to remain visible, or that we have still failed to achieve a year old target - either way it does not promote a positive image. LessHeard vanU (talk) 00:00, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok. I don't have anything to do with that wiki, but I just requested a password.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 00:04, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Which MUDs Influenced Jimbo?

As a former MUDer myself, I was very curious to learn from Jimmy Wales that you were a MUD enthusiast. Which MUDs influenced you in particular? (I'm mostly just curious but it might be something worth adding to Jimmy Wales).

Blelbach (talk) 21:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Like most trivia, it is not worth adding anywhere. I was a big participant in TinyTIM for awhile.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

De-sysopping question

Trivia aside, you should now be more than fully aware of the controversy that has resulted as a result of my de-sysopping. A cross-continent move of dwelling to settle with a new partner, and a new child to boot, are all demanding in themselves. However, if you are here to deal with trivia, I would hope than you could set aside even a little time to take a look at this, and maybe even express a holding position. But you haven't. I know the demands on your time are manifold, but somehow, I still trust your judgement, should you consider that trust worth having. Meanwhile, I'm not happy about being dangled like a puppet on a string until my ultimate fate here is determined. You could, if you liked, step in and say "this is how it is", and I would accept that, since I have nowhere else to go in particular. If it means that I leave Wikipedia, I might find something else to do; but I would prefer not to have to do that, because I am comfortable with what I've done here. Rodhullandemu 00:14, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Your de-sysopping seems fully justified to me, I'm sorry to say. Your threats to ArbCom convinced me only all the more.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 00:23, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

So you have effectively deprived me of one objective avenue of appeal. Disgusting, and you could at least have had the courtesy to express that in private. So much for Ayn Rand's libertarian philosophy, which is at least based on the Aristotelean model of the "good citizen". I'm out of here, since you do not appear to appreciate the value of committed contributors. Rodhullandemu 00:36, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

While Jimbo didn't elaborate, you do realize he's privy not only to the public threads, but to all of Arbcom's email, right? Unlike everyone else who's commented on email they haven't seen, he actually has access to what he terms "[y]our threats to ArbCom". But while your appeal here may have been unfruitful, no one has taken away your right to appeal to the community for resysop'ing. Jclemens (talk) 00:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to add that I would not have responded publicly, except that I was asked publicly. I deeply respect contributor privacy, and had the request remained private, I would have only commented privately.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 00:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

• it scarcely matters any more. When the ultimate arbiter here expresses a prior opinion without a proper review of the evidence, there can be no confidence in that decision. The ArbCom discussions did not involve any meaningful input from me, and therefore are arbitrary, biased, and apparently final. That is why I want to have no further input into this project, since it is fundamentally flawed as regards its governance. Jimmy can fix this, but he isn't going to do so, as far as I can see. Cheers, and goodbye. Rodhullandemu 01:09, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you forget a truism that attacking the judge in his own courtroom will very rarely make him more amenable to your position? You have now done this both to the entire Arbitration Committee and to Mr. Wales. Which may set a record. Collect (talk) 01:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I thought he would be above that. Sadly, I was mistaken, "feet of clay", and all that. Rodhullandemu 02:14, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

• Jimbo cannot bypass the concerns of the community and their elected representatives on Arbcom, especially when private evidence further supports the actions of Arbcom. Turning to Jimbo as an ultimate source of authority who can fix all problems is deeply misguided: it asks too much of him, and too little of the community. Wikipedia no longer operates like that. Geometry guy 01:57, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

• It seems quite clear to me from this case that the concerns of the community are that Arbcom did something wrong that many of us are utterly offended that they refuse to acknowledge. Reading the various statements in the case request seem to make that blatantly clear. Silverseren^C 02:02, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

• Geometry guy: We specifically allowed an appeal to Jimbo (Kirill and myself specifically, don't have diffs at hand), so, please do not think that RHE was doing anything wrong with this request. SirFozzie (talk) 02:20, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

• Isn't that advice a bit...misguided? What is the point of appealing to someone who for all intent and purposes really can't (no offense) do anything about it? Tarc (talk) 02:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

• Or has expressed an opinion without being in full possession of the facts? I repeat: disgusting. Rodhullandemu 02:36, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually, considering that he has access to the Arbitration Committee Mailing List, I would say that he is very much in full possession of the facts. Ronk01 talk 02:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Access does not equate to interest. In recent weeks, it is fully documented that Jimmy has had other, more personal issues on his mind. I dispute that he is in full possession of the facts, and given that although I have forwarded emails to him I haven't been afforded the courtesy of a reply; no matter, perhaps, in the circumstances, but his use of the word "threats" isn't helpful, and I expected better of him. I've always considered Jimmy to be something of a gentleman, but at present, I do not see it. Sorry about that, but if anyone can cut the crap, he can, and it's not my fault if he chooses to sidestep that obligation, although I understand why he may feel unable to do so right now. In the cold light of day, he should realise who is trying to keep this encyclopedia within the model he envisaged for it, and who isn't. Rodhullandemu 03:24, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I will gladly review the case in detail at an appropriate time, i.e. when the case is fully complete. I have heard RHE's complaints here and regret saying anything at this time. He asked me publicly, so I responded with my thoughts. The point is: I generally take a much harder line on admin conduct and civility issues than even ArbCom.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 11:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Does that hard line include questioning whether ArbCom process is working? I meant that as a suggestion but not argumentatively. Perhaps ArbCom and the editor in question could just punt at this point and look to you or someone else for guidance, not with arguments about what should have happened or how things were handled, but about what to do now. Sometimes a private resolution by a trusted person in authority is the surest and best respected outcome. - Wikidemon (talk) 19:32, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

New arrival?

Meanwhile, what has happened there? I hope everything is OK, and our thoughts are with you. 86.178.29.76 (talk) 13:15, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikinews

I've left a loooooong message for you on your en.wn talk. I hope it goes some way towards straightening things out, and I also hope you find the positive possibilities that have emerged interesting. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 14:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

direct link — μ 14:37, March 6 2011 (UTC)

Creating Wikipedia

When you thought of the idea of Wikipedia di you think it would be this successful? -- Thomas888b (Say Hi) 20:13, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

There have been many, many, many stories published about the genesis of Wikipedia. I'm sure that if you read some of them you will find your answer there.--*Kat* ^(meow?) 21:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

interface

KISMF 190.51.153.150 (talk) 21:05, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Please address the problem of liberal/atheist bias in Wikipedia

Dear Jimbo, First my must be apologizing for my poor English which is not my first language. Secondly I am here to bring to your attention a much serious problem of the liberal left-wing bias in Wikipedia. I understand that self sellection bias causes this but it is not acceptable. The article on creation is located at Creation myth if I am correct but the evolution theory is located St evolution. Theyboth should be listed as "theorys". In addition the Obama article is apologetic and white washed while George W. Bush looks like a court hearing. Also on global warming the article is a highly defensive piece that promotes the theory and deflects any properalyreferenced alternate views or criticism of the theory. Much Thanks for your time. 184.168.192.27 (talk) 04:50, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Reread creation myth - it's not about Creationism; rather it's about ancient cultures' mythologies. —Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Hyper Combo K.O.!)} 05:46, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. The IP editor may also find Genesis creation narrative to be of interest. LadyofShalott 05:50, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps Conservapedia would be more to your tastes. Like beauty, bias is often in the eye of the beholder.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:40, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Blatant Bias in Shakespeare Authorship Question page by Majority Editors

Dear Sir;

The majority group editing this page, Stratfordian in loyalty, seeks to make the authorship page a permanent fixture in Wikipedia by achieving featured article status. Tom Reedy and Nishidani are the prominent editors with this stated goal. In effect, the Shakespeare Authorship page will serve as a permanent propaganda bastion for the status quo position. This is unacceptable use of Wikipedia pages.

As an indication of their biased use of sources and/or unjustified emphasis, either of which should disqualify the page from featured article status, I present here a typical paragraph and will demonstrate its unacceptable scholarship.

"In 1602, Ralph Brooke, the York Herald, accused Sir William Dethick, the Garter King of Arms, of elevating 23 unworthy persons to the gentry. One of these was Shakespeare's father, who had applied for arms 34 years earlier but had to wait for the success of his son before they were granted in 1596. Brooke included a sketch of the Shakespeare arms, captioned "Shakespear ye Player by Garter". The grants, including John Shakespeare's, were defended by Dethick and Clarenceux King of Arms William Camden, the foremost antiquary of the time. In his Remaines Concerning Britaine, published in 1605 but completed two years earlier, Camden names Shakespeare as one of the "most pregnant witts of these ages our times, whom succeeding ages may justly admire".[86]"

The clear import of this paragraph is that William Shakspere of Stratford obtained his family coat of arms in 1596 by bribery, for which Dethick was notorious, as indicated by the number of other frauds. He was not merely accused as the paragraph temporizes; he was successfully prosecuted. (Gervinus, Shakespeare Commentaries, p. 467) Camden, Dethick's superior, was not implicated although he signed the 1599 confirmation. (Brooke, Shakespeare of Stratford, pp. 32-4) The Shakspere coat of arms could not be retroactively withdrawn. The "father...had to wait for the success of his son" infers that Shakspere's becoming a famous playwright facilitated the approval. This is an unfounded inference, without supporting references. Four of the five sentences are unfootnoted. Three of five contain errors.

The paragraph is written in such a fashion that no connections are attempted between evident criminal activity, the unproven Stratfordian Soul of the Age cited in it, and the Shakespeare canon, wherein honor as a characteristic of chivalry is featured 690 times. Nothing fits but the absence of fit is ignored.

The unbiased facts are that in 1569, when John Shakspere originally applied for gentleman status, his claim was rejected, non sanz droict, meaning "no, without right". (E.K. Chambers, Life of William Shakespeare) Shakspere's long rejected application thirty-four years later succeeded by corrupt practice, his son's William's.

Camden's statement above ["one of the most pregnant witts..."] had nothing to do with Shakspere of Stratford or the coat of arms controversy. It was praise for, among several others, the playwright Shakespeare whose identity is the very matter in question in the Wikipedia page. The majority editors' sleight of hand transfers honor given the "Shakespeare" playwright to their claimant, assuming but not proving him as that playwright. Footnote 87 is a diatribe against anyone's reservation regarding the claim. It is shameful as scholarship.

Camden never praised Shakspere, as claimed above. He was schoolmaster, tutor, and friend to Ben Jonson, who famously ridiculed Shakspere as the pretender Sogliardo; who bastardized his heraldry; and who satirized his identifying motto, the latter an anomaly never once used by the family. Jonson switched Shakspere's "Not Without Right" to Sogliardo's "Not Without Mustard" in 'Every Man Out of His Humour'.

Camden later commented on suppressed freedom of expression in his time as the work of "those who think the memory of succeeding ages may be extinguished by present power." He added, these were “things secret and abstruse I have not pried into.” (W. David Kay, Ben Jonson: A Literary Life, p. 70) Jonson as a dramatist could lampoon, but Camden as an historian could not tell what he knew. The paragraph distorts what he did when an official and what he said as an historian.

Footnote 86 has nothing to do with Camden’s praise for the playwright Shakespeare. It is a non sequitur reference to James Shapiro's undocumented general work, 'Contested Will', an acceptable Stratfordian source.

In answer to the obvious question, why did I not present these arguments in the editing process, I regret to respond they have been presented in the past. Each and every objection by me or any Oxfordian editor has been rejected as a matter of policy. Something is always wrong, no matter how well documented. But Reedy alters the page at will. He buried the significant fact that the U.S. Supreme Court justices who ruled against clear and convincing Oxfordian evidence in 1987, later reversed this judgment and a number of others doubt the Stratfordian thesis. They are characterized as celebrity endorsers, not professional experts on probative evidence.

Wikipedia featured-article status will install a multitude of such falsehoods, each and all slanted towards the status quo interpretation of the Shakespeare legend. There is no contrary scholarship allowed, which ensures the Wikipedia page will be a joke to the knowing and misleading propaganda to the many, as more of the truth emerges elsewhere without editor suppressions. Zweigenbaum (talk) 11:47, 7 March 2011 (UTC)