Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isaac Saul (2nd nomination)

Isaac Saul

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• Articles for deletion/Isaac Saul
• Articles for deletion/Isaac Saul (2nd nomination)

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Isaac Saul (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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This article was previously deleted via a deletion discussion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isaac Saul). Most of the sources provided on the pages are from before the previous discussion, which would indicate that Saul is still non-notable. However, a few sources have been published since the last discussion in 2021. As such, I wouldn't necessarily consider this eligible for CSD, but it's worth discussing whether Saul is now notable. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 20:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 20:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Journalism, Politics, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 20:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks for tagging me. I'd like to emphasize some of the new sources I've added to this article between the first and second nomination: , , ,, . I thought that these references were some of the strongest in the piece. We now have direct mentions from CNN, Axios, the Financial Times, Forbes, Yahoo! News, Business Insider, Salon, and NBC Universal (none of which are articles Saul published himself). Doesn't this put the article well over the standard three-reference limit?

References

Mover of molehills^{move me} 21:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

So my position is obviously keep, although I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment on my own article. Mover of molehills^{move me} 14:11, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@Mover of molehills you're perfectly entitled take a position in the discussion. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 23:59, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Mover of molehills the guideline for notability of people is WP:BIO, which asks for "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject", while WP:THREE suggests presenting three references to show that WP:BIO is met. I don't think the five sources you linked provide the required coverage

• Transylvania University: listing for a talk by Saul at TU, not independent coverage
• Salon.com: quote from Saul, not independent
• NBCU Academy: looks like a mini interview, so not independent
• axios.com: listing for a talk by Saul, not independent coverage
• Financial Times: quote from Saul, not independent

TSventon (talk) 02:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• Keep — sources should notability, particularly the ones in the "Recognition" section.

DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 13:32, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• Comment. The relevant notability criteria here is: WP:JOURNALIST, which says: The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors...The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews... At first glance Saul appears to satisfy this (given that this article makes the "influential" claim with regard to both the 2016 and 2020 elections). But it seems fair enough to have to take a closer look at whether the sources actually bear this out, as there is very little discussion about the specifics around the 2016 election, and rather thin discussion about his other work as a journalist throughout his career. Cielquiparle (talk) 17:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:00, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: I've found a few new sources about Saul since I published this article that I wanted to share, in case it's useful to other reviewers. I haven't added these sources to the article yet, because I'm not sure what specific facts they would support that aren't already in there. However, I thought they could help to establish notability: , , , .

References

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to evaluate newly found sources not placed in the article yet. Right now, there is disagreement over whether existing sources are sufficient to establish notability for this journalist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: I just replaced the Transylvania listing of Isaac Saul's talk, which was justifiably critized by TSventon as not independent enough, with a more detailed article: Mover of molehills^{move me} 23:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

References