Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johny Messo

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:42, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Johny Messo

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Johny Messo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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WP:BEFORE found no significant coverage of this individual in independent sources. (t · c) buidhe 14:25, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. (t · c) buidhe 14:25, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Netherlands-related deletion discussions. (t · c) buidhe 14:25, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. (t · c) buidhe 14:25, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

• Keep. By my research passes the WP:GNG, if nothing else. gidonb (talk) 22:53, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Gidonb, What coverage of them is there in independent, reliable sources? Please be specific. (t · c) buidhe 22:56, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

See below. It's for a reason that folks do not support this. gidonb (talk) 12:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

• Comment I was able find some coverage in English, Turkish and Dutch sources: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. ~Styyx ^{Talk? ^-^} 08:44, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The first four are regurgitated press releases with no independent information. The fifth and sixth are interviews, which do not count as independent coverage. The last two maybe count but I don't think they are enough to meet GNG on their own, since they're largely made up of quotes from him. (t · c) buidhe 14:22, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 23:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:34, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:34, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

• Delete I agree with buidhe here having reviewed the available sources. Currently, all four sources in the article are WP:PRIMARY either to an organisation he's involved with or to his own personal website, so it currently fails WP:PROMO. The next question is can it be cleaned up to become notable, and I agree with the press conference/interviews as found above. That leaves us with the Dutch coverage, which translates to a five-part series on community members. That's probably WP:SIGCOV, but considering there's nothing else, on its own, I don't think it establishes notability (as it appears to be less about him being notable, and more about him being profiled as a member of a community.) SportingFlyer T·C 21:03, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• I was asked to take another look at the article by Sorabino, who voted keep below, but I still don't see any significant coverage of him in any of the sources. Many are still primary or mere mentions, and the article seems to be written heavily about the organisation he's in charge of. SportingFlyer T·C 12:08, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Since last additions, I notified you on improvements I made after your initial vote, and asked you to take another look at the current state of the article. Sorabino (talk) 12:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I've taken another look at the article but am maintaining my vote. SportingFlyer T·C 13:00, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. In order to be kept, this article should be improved significantly. Regarding the delete proposal itself, it seems to me that recent activities of user buidhe are somehow focused on deleting contents specifically related to Arameans and Assyrians. The same user proposed deletion of the article World Council of Arameans (Syriacs), and also deleted the entire list of works from the article Journal of Assyrian Academic Studies, not to mention previous undiscussed removal of the term "genocide" from the title of the article that is currently called Seyfo (the term genocide was in all previous versions of the title of that article from 2006 to 2020). Also, the same user is presenting itself as an "administrator" on their user′s page, but admits that they are not! Before deleting articles and contents, maybe one should bring its own user page in order? Sorabino (talk) 09:59, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. In order to be considered for keeping, this article had to be improved, so I added some referenced contents. I also saw that there are many news articles on political activities of this politician, particularly those on international stage, including articles on meetings with various ministers and ambassadors, but that is another story. Sorabino (talk) 13:05, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Additional remark: It should be noted that since 2009 (for twelve years now) this person is holding the office of the SUA/WCA president, a position that is regarded as representative within Aramean/Syriac community: "Among the Syrianska elite, especially those individuals who are personally active in the Syrianska secular organizations tend to perceive the president of SUA (Syriac Universal Alliance) as the person in charge of the 'amo Suryoyo." Quotation is taken from the work of Nuresh Atto, cited in the article on SUA/WCA. Term 'amo Suryoyo designates Syriac/Aramean nation, represented globally by the SUA/WCA, that is headed by Messo. As the long-term representative of his nation, and also as an author, this person is certainly above the threshold of notability, and therefore this article should be kept. Sorabino (talk) 02:32, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:NOTINHERITED and WP:GNG. While the plight of the Arameans is significant, I don't see how this advocate is notable. Few if any of the sources are secondary. Bearian (talk) 18:24, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

I would not oppose a selective merge of this into the World Council of Arameans (Syriacs). As noted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World Council of Arameans (Syriacs), we could redirect or merge several articles into that target. Bearian (talk) 23:22, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

In that case, a redirect would be left to that target? Still, it seems to me that the best solution would be to keep the article, since that author is also the head of an umbrella organization that represents an entire Aramean community worldwide. Since this deletion proposal was initiated, I took some interest in those articles and added referenced content, but much more could be added. When it comes to minority organizations and their representatives, deletion should be the last option, only in those cases where true relevance is lacking, but that is not the case here. Sorabino (talk) 09:41, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. Hm, it seems that deletion proposals for articles on Johny Messo and the World Council of Arameans (Syriacs) coincided somehow with the process of leadership election in that organization (WCA Facebook page: Posts), that ended few days ago, with the re-election of Johny Messo. That is an interesting coincidence, that should be noted. Sorabino (talk) 01:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.