Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of one-time characters in The Simpsons (4th nomination): Difference between revisions

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List of one-time characters from The Simpsons

I am nominating this article for deletion for a number of reasons. The first of these reasons being that their is no need to have a massively long article that lists characters that appear once in a 19 season series. Second, how is a character defined as notable enough to appear on this list? "For purposes of this list, "one-time" means they were central to an episode one time." While that is clear enough criteria, could it not be simply summarized in the article of the one episode they appear in? Lastly, many of the summaries are only one line long, which is not enough info to be considered notable. This type of information belongs in a Simpsons Wiki, rather than Wikipedia The Placebo Effect 02:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep First off, some of the characters appear in more than one episode, they were just CENTRAL to one episode. Some of these characters pretty notable, such as Frank Grimes, Leon Kompowsky, Jacques, Hank Scorpio, etc, etc. And, the reason they are limited to one line is because otherwise, it is very crufty. Is this more to your liking? Because that's what the page used to look like. Getting to the WP:FICT guidelines, I think the page passes because it has some real world information, as well as sources that prove notability. And for the "it's pure cruft" crowd (who will be along shortly), but if this isn't Simpsons cruft, I don't know what is. I hate to user the "Other crap exists" defense, but it did survive an AFD a couple months ago. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:13, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you hate to use that example then don't use it. An besides that article is currently PRODed and will most likely come to AFD when it is removed. The Placebo Effect 15:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per nom. Not to mention, it doesn't even have all that much info on the characters. Probably merge with the episodes they were in. Cheers,Je t Lover (Report a mistake) 02:14, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Wow, so we decide to cut down on the cruft and removed stuff that was basically a rehash of an episode, as well as removed characters that appeared for less than a minute, and now people want to delete because of a LACK of information? If you guys think this is a better page, then I will happily revert back to it. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:16, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - And by the way, they appeared one time, in one episode. I doubt they're notable. I mean, say you were on a jog one morning. You pass a guy, and you both tell each other "hi." You won't remember him for a long time. Kind of like that. Cheers,Je t Lover (Report a mistake) 02:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, I think it should be deleted because it is unnecessary information that can be summarized on the episode pages and on a Simpsons Wiki. The Placebo Effect 02:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Took the words right out of my mouth. Cheers,Je t Lover (Report a mistake) 02:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - The list of characters is being cleaned up so that it only contains recurring characters, so a list of these one-timers should be somewhere because some of them are quite notable. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        Such as? Cheers,Je t Lover (Report a mistake) 02:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        Frank Grimes, star of the episode Homer's Enemy, gets 72,000 google hits, pretty good when the likes of Groundskeeper Willie get 90,000 hits. Others like Hank Scorpio (You Only Move Twice), Cecil Terwilliger (Brother From Another Series), Jacques (Life on the Fast Lane), Leon Kompowsky (Stark Raving Dad), Llyellyn Sinclair (A Streetcar Named Marge), and many more who played important roles in important episodes and should be noted somewhere. Besides, some of the articles for episodes that these characters were in are GAs (and in the case of A Streetcar Named Marge, Homer's Enemy and You Only Move Twice, FAs), so the information in those articles is devoted more to the episode, rather than the character. And I can guarantee you that if this page is deleted, the fanboys will either a) create a page for the characters or b) try and create unsourced sections in the episode pages. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        Sure, keep Grimes, but the others have only appeared once, and are more important to the episode then the series. Cheers,Je t Lover (Report a mistake) 02:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        
        If we delete it people will make bad pages is not a valid argument for keeping the article. There isn't a FA article in this encyclopedia that can't withstand a single sentence on a character, if the character is actually important to the episode. Otto4711 14:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The Simpsons have become such an wide-ranging part of popular culture that even small cross-slices have become relevant (see Frank Grimes, above). Also can't see any purpose served by merging or otherwise chopping up this list. CitiCat^♫ 04:34, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I can see no obvious variance from any guideline or policy that would lead me to think this should be deleted. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 05:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Please read this quote from the last afd The Placebo Effect 06:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  ... the arguments presented says this comes down to a bun-fight between Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). This material is a very high level of detail regarding a theme which does not appear to be in common parlance, thus falls squarely into "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information." This has been countered with "Non-notable minor characters (and places, concepts, etc.) in a work of fiction should be merged with short descriptions into a List of characters." This counter argument is an incomplete quote however as the guideline goes on to say "This list should reside in the article relating to the work itself [...]" In this case the work itself is the episode in which the charater appears. As there is nothing meaningful to merge (minor characters have very little information, plot-important charaters already have more information in the parent articles) and the article title would not serve as a meaningful redirect I recomend deletion.
  - Except that, to add a third page into the bun fight, WP:SUMMARY clearly recommend splitting off articles when the parent article becomes too large. The article The Simpsons would become unworkable if all of this were added back there. I see where you are coming, but this seems like a valid sub-article under Summary Style. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 06:13, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Well, then move the information to the articles that the Character has an impact in. Since these are "One-time characters" It shouldn't be hard to find the rght episodes they belong it. Just add a new section to the article and have it cited. The Placebo Effect 06:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
delete- as a silly and endless list.JJJ999 05:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weakish Keep - I would definitly have deleted the original list, but this version is a lot better. Its double standards, if this was still the previous version it would still have been deleted for "massive in universe cruft" and "no out of universe info". Yet, now this list has that, and all of the cruft has been removed, its being deleted for not having long enough summaries... Gran² 06:11, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, it's being nominated because the characters are not notable and this violates WP:NOT : "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information". The Placebo Effect 06:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - So this "many of the summaries are only one line long, which is not enough info to be considered notable", doesn't actually mean what I think it means? They could have longer descriptions quite easily, would that then make them more notable? Or would it then be considered cruft? That's my point. But I'm changing to weak keep now, that was what I had intended to vote this morning but I was half asleep. Gran² 14:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - That was just to show how unnecasary most of these characters are. Although, I would have nominated this in any form just by looking at the title.The Placebo Effect 14:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notable material from a notable TV series. Alansohn 06:37, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Explain to me how a One-time Character from any TV show is notable, let alone a full list of them. The Placebo Effect 06:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep As stated above, very notable list from a very notable TV series. I'm not sure why it's even been nominated. Kevin 06:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Again I ask, How done "One-time characters" make a notable list? The Placebo Effect 06:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete by definition, they're not notable. I believe the same list for Futurama one-time characters was AFD'd. Lugnuts 07:41, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The subject of characters appearing once in The Simpsons is not worthy of an article, and as such I don't see the reason for keeping this list. Pablo Talk | Contributions 07:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable characters from an extremely notable series are still non-notable. Clarityfiend 10:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep I don't see a problem with this article. These characters are notable, as many have cult followings, like Hank Scorpio. Karrmann 10:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Then the onws that do can be mentioned in the episode appears in, and the list can be deleted. The Placebo Effect 13:43, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, since they only appear once, every character can be fully explained in the episode in which they appear. Redirects for the more memorable characters will help people find what they are looking for. The problem is for every somewhat notable character on this list, there are 20 that only die-hard fans remember.--SeizureDog 12:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Nobody is arguing if character x or y is notable, the list is not. If Scorpio is notable, he can have his own page/subpage. this list of (mostly trivial) characters is totally needless, and violates WP policy.JJJ999 12:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - list is for all intents and purposes a bunch of mini plot summaries, either of the episode entirely or of the specific scene or scenes in which the one-shot character appears. There is nothing here that should not be (and probably already is if I know Simpsons editors) in the main article. Otto4711 12:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Because I was unsure about the in-universe notability of some characters, I arbitrarily checked the coverage of "Gulliver Dark" in the article "Homer's Night Out", and "Toshiro", "Master Sushi Chef" and "Hostess" in the article "One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish". I am surprised to say that these characters were deemed not notable enough to even be mentioned once in either plot summary. No in-universe notability, forget out-of-universe notabilty -> delete. – sgeureka ^t•c 13:20, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A bit long I have to admit, maybe we don't need to include a summary for every one. Or maybe we do. Either way, the article should still be kept as it is somewhat a useful resource. 11kowrom 13:27, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:USEFUL is not the best argument. Otto4711 14:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:USEFUL mentions alternative wiki's to put useful information on. There doesn't appear to be an alternative wiki for this page. Keep. 11kowrom 21:25, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So what? There doesn't have to be an alternate wiki for the "useful" argument to be bad. Otto4711 21:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
[1] says "hi" The Placebo Effect 21:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Some of these characters are notable and have appeared in more than one episode. It has some real world information, as well as sources that prove notability. Moreover, these characters have cult followings as well. --S iva1979^{Talk to me} 13:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That explains a few of the characters, but what about all the other ones like sgeureka mentions above? The Placebo Effect 13:37, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If they appear in more than one episode then they should not be on a "list of one-time characters" in the first place. Otto4711 14:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As stated many times above, more notable characters can be included in the relevant episodes, non-notable characters don't matter. Madgenberyl 13:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, the article passed three discussions already (the last with a clear "keep") and concerns characters on arguably the most successful animated show of all time. Collectively the characters therefore as a list have notability and due to the show's ongoing popularity readers will be interested in this easily verfiable list and editors will be willing to improve it. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 15:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- actually last time their were 10 keeps, 9 deletes, and 2 splits/merge, which is not a "clear 'keep'" but rather a "no consensus". And just because they are one-time characters on an show does not qualify them as notable. If they truly are notable, then they can be mentioned on the appropriate episode page. The Placebo Effect 15:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable, as detailed above. • Lawrence Cohen 16:16, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- which reason noted above? you need to be more specific in your reasons The Placebo Effect 16:26, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notable. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 18:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please state why you think that a list "One-time characters" is notable. None of them are individualy notable, so why as a group are they notable? The Placebo Effect 18:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You just answered your own question. Individually, no, but as characters in an extremely notable series such as The Simpsons, then yes. 23skidoo 19:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense. The notability of The Simpsons does not confer notability onto every single character who strolls across the screen for two seconds, even if eleventy-hundred of them are all bunged together on a list. Otto4711 21:33, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a reasonable and notable list. Per my comment directly above, individually the characters aren't necessarily notable. Taken as a group, they are. I am also citing the fact this article has survived multiple AFDs in the past. If I may also comment, I do believe The Placebo Effect's challenging of people's Keep votes is a violation of Wikipedia policy with regards to conduct connected with the AFD process and I recommend he/she investigate to make sure a violation is not in fact occurring. 23skidoo 19:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I am asking them to explain why they voted keep which they are supposed to do accourding to this The Placebo Effect 19:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment for those who are saying to put the notable characters into the episode summaries and delete the list, is there any particular reason to do this? You probably could do that type of action with almost any Wikipedia list, but what would be the point of that action? CitiCat^♫ 19:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- THe point of that action would be to put the Character that appears once in a place where more can be described and should fit in and belong better rather than a long list profling them all in one place. The Placebo Effect 20:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 54: / Line 54: @@
 **which reason noted above? you need to be more specific in your reasons [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 16:26, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * '''Keep''' Notable. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )]] 18:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
-**Please state why you think that a list "One-time characters" is notable. None of them are individualy notable, so why as a group are they notable? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 18:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
+:*Please state why you think that a list "One-time characters" is notable. None of them are individualy notable, so why as a group are they notable? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 18:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
-***You just answered your own question. Individually, no, but as characters in an extremely notable series such as The Simpsons, then yes. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 19:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
+::*You just answered your own question. Individually, no, but as characters in an extremely notable series such as The Simpsons, then yes. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 19:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
+:::*Nonsense. The notability of The Simpsons does not confer notability onto every single character who strolls across the screen for two seconds, even if eleventy-hundred of them are all bunged together on a list. [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] 21:33, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''' as a reasonable and notable list. Per my comment directly above, individually the characters aren't necessarily notable. Taken as a group, they are. I am also citing the fact this article has survived multiple AFDs in the past. If I may also comment, I do believe The Placebo Effect's challenging of people's Keep votes is a violation of Wikipedia policy with regards to conduct connected with the AFD process and I recommend he/she investigate to make sure a violation is not in fact occurring. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 19:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 **I am asking them to explain why they voted keep which they are supposed to do accourding to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#AfD Wikietiquette|this]] [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 19:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)