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*::::::{{Ping|Venkat TL}} Your quote isn't a definition of Neo-Nazism, it's a description of some of the actions Neo-Nazis often take. Just because some ideologies have some similarities with Neo-Nazism doesn't make them Neo-Nazi. Antisemitism and White Supremacy are key components of Neo-Nazism, you can't just dismiss that. Please [[WP:AGF]] instead of throwing around accusations of censorship - this isn't the first time you have done this.
*::::::{{Ping|Venkat TL}} Your quote isn't a definition of Neo-Nazism, it's a description of some of the actions Neo-Nazis often take. Just because some ideologies have some similarities with Neo-Nazism doesn't make them Neo-Nazi. Antisemitism and White Supremacy are key components of Neo-Nazism, you can't just dismiss that. Please [[WP:AGF]] instead of throwing around accusations of censorship - this isn't the first time you have done this.
*:::::And even by your own definition people quoted in the article arent neo-nazis. Even JFK said nice things about Hitler, but Nazism is an actual ideology, not just "when you're racist".[[User:RKT7789|RKT7789]] ([[User talk:RKT7789|talk]]) 07:08, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
*:::::And even by your own definition people quoted in the article arent neo-nazis. Even JFK said nice things about Hitler, but Nazism is an actual ideology, not just "when you're racist".[[User:RKT7789|RKT7789]] ([[User talk:RKT7789|talk]]) 07:08, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
*::::::Why dont you guys stop pinging me and start emailing the historians and scholars who have written these scholarly references (linked in the article) about the rise of Neo-Nazism in India. [[User:Venkat TL|Venkat TL]] ([[User talk:Venkat TL|talk]]) 07:11, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Revision as of 07:11, 13 February 2022

Neo-Nazism in India

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Neo-Nazism in India (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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WP:POINTY stub created in order to avenge the deletion of Category:Neo-Nazism in India.[1] A WP:POVFORK of Neo-Nazism#India, there is nothing in the article which describe any foundation of "Neo-Nazism" in India. While it is possible that Neo-Nazim might have inspired some elements in Indian political discourse, just like it did all over the world, there is still no evidence that the ideology on its own exist in India.

A good example is that there is no Neo-Nazism in Japan and Neo-Nazism in Italy, even after Emperial Japan and Fascist Italy being allies with Nazi Germany during WW2. Wareon (talk) 15:15, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Venkat TL (talk) 16:11, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge (was Delete) For the same reason I moved and redirected the content of Neo-Nazism in Costa Rica to Neo-Nazism: It seems it is a fringe topic in both countries that from time to time arise due to news about a handful of individuals, and that can be covered as a section in the article with the biggest scope. --Roqz (talk) 17:12, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Roqz, you are !voting for delete and arguing for merge. Venkat TL (talk) 17:19, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, by reading the thread I assumed that the content was copied from Neo-Nazism and elsewhere to Neo-Nazism in India so we won't lose any content, but you are right, if any, the new content can be merged back to Neo-Nazism. My point is that a standalone article is not needed, a section in Neo-Nazism is fine. Updated my vote. --Roqz (talk) 17:43, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Roqz According to WP:SIZERULE, articles with size > 100KB should be split into WP:CFORKS. Neo-Nazism is already at 178KB Well beyond the limit. The suggestion to merge it back is absurd. Venkat TL (talk) 21:55, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Venkat TL: If the problem is the Neo-Nazi article being bloated, wouldn't the most logical thing to do be turning a large section within the bloated article into a new article and replacing said section with a short, non-detailed summary? Instead, you pick one of the smallest, non-neutral sections from the bloated article, turn it into a new article, and then proceed to fill the new article with a generic definition, one-sided narratives and information about a vaguely related person; and mention a non-contentious film with a contentious title. Rockcodder (talk) 04:01, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No. Nothing is undeserved there. See WP:CENSOR Venkat TL (talk) 04:17, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I never said anything about anything there being undeserved. Please don't put words in my mouth. All I meant by 'non-neutral section' was the fact that Neo-Nazism#India represents the claim of Hindu nationalists having ties with "the totalitarian regimes" as fact but fails to clearly mention that there are reliable sources and experts who say/claim that Hindutva cannot be placed under the genus of fascism/nazism. Rockcodder (talk) 06:51, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The lead consists of a generic definition of Neo-Nazism, a direct lift from the 'India' section of the Neo-Nazism article and a small paragraph that presents a one-sided narrative about Hindutva and Modi. The 'People' section talks about Savitri Devi, who wasn't an Indian citizen. Her conversion to Hindusim and involvement in espionage against the Allies in India doesn't change this fact. The section then talks about a few 8chan trolls who identify as 'trads' (a fringe group within the Indian rightwing). The 'Incidents' section talks about school textbooks from Gujarat but doesn't mention the state education department's claim that the problems arose due to poor translation of the book from Gujarati into English.[1] The section then mentions a one-off incident about a pool parlour named Hitler's Den. Like Captain Jack Sparrow said above, mere admiration does not make you a Neo-Nazi. The section then mentions the Bulli Bai incident and calls its perpetrators a 'neo-Nazi-inspired alt-right group' based on a dubious claim from a Vice article. The 'Media' section mentions a movie named Dear Friend Hitler/Gandhi to Hitler which is based on the letters written by Gandhi where he addresses Hitler as 'dear friend'. Time to add Gandhi to the 'People' section? Rockcodder (talk) 21:03, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4711475.stm
  • Delete My issue is the article doesn't actually seem to describe neo-nazism in India.RKT7789 (talk) 07:42, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete While the article is greatly expanded since some of the people above !voted delete, is still has similar problems: it describes many aspects associated with nazism in India, but they're either from an era before 'neo'-nazism became a thing (WW2), or it's about political groups that find inspiration in neo-nazism, but aren't neonazis themselves. Given the high risk of disruption in this topic area, I don't think a rewrite is desirable if at all possible. Femke (talk) 14:58, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Femkemilene, thanks for noting the improvement. Would a rename to Nazism in India satisfy you? There is a lot of material from post WW2, yet to be added here. I will add in coming days. Venkat TL (talk) 15:03, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the overlap with Hindutva would be too large. With broad controversial articles, I would like to see very good reasons for articles with a lot of overlap to co-exist. It's difficult to maintain. Femke (talk) 15:21, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Femkemilene, if there is a lot of overlap, users will then merge the two articles. Nazism is one the prime characteristic of Hindutva. Right now Hindutva stands at 105KB already crossed the WP:SIZERULE of 100KB. So this is another reason this can co-exist with Hindutva. Neo-Nazism in India fills a specific void. There is a fast growing Neo Nazi base in India. Admiration for Nazism – often reframed with a genocidal hatred for Muslims – is rampant in the Hindu nationalist camp, which has never been as mainstream as it is now Haaretz Venkat TL (talk) 15:33, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I may be able to be convinced if you find a high-quality source (so not an opinion piece) that clearly delineates the topics. I don't see that yet. Femke (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok. (I forgot to add in my last comment above that) this article as it stands contains enough unique content to merit its existence as a standalone article beside Nazism and others. Venkat TL (talk) 15:48, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The sources do not say anything like "There is a fast growing Neo Nazi base in India," but relies on false balances in making the comparison with Nazism and the ideologies in India. You would also want to include Arvind Kejriwal to this article[2] since you are so eager to promote trad-trolls as neo-nazis in India. 182.77.126.52 (talk) 17:11, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Good grief. WP:SYNTH coupled with WP:OR. I'm especially unimpressed with the equating of the symbol on File:Jaipur 03-2016 38 Garh Ganesh Temple.jpg with the Nazi use of the Swastika, whcih it is not. This is trying to force the uneducated reader to a conclusion that cannot be drawn. There is something very WP:POINTY about this article. WP:NOTFORUM applies, with consideration of warning the creating editor and any who push this bizarre faux-argument as to their rights and responsibilities on Wikipedia FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 17:37, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    For any editor doubting that the file referred to is used incorrectly in this article and thus adds to WP:SYNTH reading Swastika will be illuminating FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 18:25, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment-The author claims to have expanded the article, though I find all the same issues still in the article. Further, new problematic sources have been introduced in an attempt to inflate the article. Sources like Haaretz, which is an opinion piece and thus not WP:RS, have been used as the basis for multiple paragraphs as well as an entire section. Article is still entirely without merit. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Noting Large content removal during AfD. Should probably compare versions before deciding on deletion, though it looks like removal of SYNTH and OR. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The article's quality is obviously extremely bad, with the large amount of unreliable sources, as has been noted. It also seems to fundamentally misunderstand what Neo-nazism is. Most of the article is the history of Indian interaction with actual Nazism, and then a list of a few incidents which are not actually examples of Neo-Nazism. Since Neo-Nazism involves white supremacy and antisemitism, and there are hardly and whites or Jews in India, there simply isn't enough of a Neo-Nazi movement in India to be WP:NOTABLE, which is why this article has to resort to either using unreliable sources or WP:SYNTH. The creator's stated justification for splitting from an already dubious section in Neo-Nazism#India is nonsense - this doesn't help with the size of that article at all. --पदाति (talk) 00:08, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Neo Nazism involves antisemitism *AND* "Islamophobia". Your comment is the vanilla version of WP:IDONTLIKEIT to censor information. Venkat TL (talk) 06:13, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Just because something has characteristics associated with Neo-Nazism doesn't make it Neo-Nazism. Antisemitism is a key component of Neo-Nazism which is not largely prevalent in India. Many Neo-Nazis are Islamophobes, but Islamophobia is not necessarily Neo-Nazism. --पदाति (talk) 06:42, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Venkat TL: No he's right, point to an actual case of neo-nazism in the article, I can't seem to find any. Savitri Devi would be acceptable except she didn't spend the post-war years in India, so adding her is a bit deceptive. If the article was named "Far-right in India", I'd accept it.RKT7789 (talk) 06:47, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Looks like I have to teach you what Neo Nazism is. Copy from Neo-Nazi

References

  1. ^ Gay, Kathlyn (1997) Neo-Nazis: A Growing Threat. Enslow. p. 114. ISBN 978-0894909016. Quote: "Neo-Nazis ... use fear and violence in their efforts to destroy minorities. Their goal is to establish a "superior" society."(emphasis added)
  2. ^ Staff (ndg) "Ideologies: Neo Nazi" Southern Poverty Law Center. Quote: "While some neo-Nazi groups emphasize simple hatred, others are more focused on the revolutionary creation of a fascist political state." (emphasis added)
  • small jewish population means Antisemitism is not predominantly seen, it is Islamophobia that is the dominant in Indian Nazis. Since the Indians are non white, apart from white Supremacy, Indian Nazis demonstrate all the others forms of hatred listed above. Venkat TL (talk) 06:49, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That doesn't make them Neo-Nazis. --पदाति (talk) 06:52, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I am telling you what Scholars say. You are here to WP:Censor, so it is obvious. Do not ping me again.
    @Venkat TL: Your quote isn't a definition of Neo-Nazism, it's a description of some of the actions Neo-Nazis often take. Just because some ideologies have some similarities with Neo-Nazism doesn't make them Neo-Nazi. Antisemitism and White Supremacy are key components of Neo-Nazism, you can't just dismiss that. Please WP:AGF instead of throwing around accusations of censorship - this isn't the first time you have done this.
    And even by your own definition people quoted in the article arent neo-nazis. Even JFK said nice things about Hitler, but Nazism is an actual ideology, not just "when you're racist".RKT7789 (talk) 07:08, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Why dont you guys stop pinging me and start emailing the historians and scholars who have written these scholarly references (linked in the article) about the rise of Neo-Nazism in India. Venkat TL (talk) 07:11, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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