Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Weather

2024–25 WikiProject Weather Good Article Reassessment

I would like to announce that a new task force has been created to re-examine the status of every GA in the project. Many good articles have not been reviewed in quite a while (15+ years for some) and notability requirements have changed quite a bit over the years. The goal of this task force is to save as many articles as possible. Anyone not reviewing an article may jump in to help get it up to par if it does not meet the GA requirements. The process will start officially on February 1 and will continue until every article has been checked and either kept or delisted. The task force may be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Weather/2024–25 Good Article Reassessment. Noah, AA^Talk 15:22, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Articles under review

• 1949 Texas hurricane (review)
• Windsor Locks, Connecticut, tornado (GAR)
• Wind shear (GAR)

Draft:Rain-on-snow

I recently started a draft covering rain-on-snow, which is a topic that's been garnering increasing attention and focused research in recent decades due to its wide-ranging and highly consequential effects on people and ecosystems. I am not very familiar with the topic, but it seems noteworthy enough to be the subject of an article and wanted to drop a message here to call attention from those who may be more familiar with the subject. At the moment, the draft is just a quick summation of some of the initial content I found regarding rain-on-snow, so it is probably rather unbalanced and not globally representative. Of course, that will hopefully change as the draft develops. –TheAustinMan^{(Talk ⬩ Edits)} 22:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Help with a national park

Greetings. Can someone here help me get {{weather box}} right for Redwoods National Park? I am trying to match NOWdata to the labels given in the template but am not sure of either. This article Redwood_National_and_State_Parks#Climate is an FA but hasn't been updated for climate since 2006 to 2010 or so. I found the Eureka, CA station, and got NOWdata for the Crescent City, CA area (park service headquarters). That should fulfill our mandate. Should I omit "Mean daily minimum"? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:09, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I moved the new numbers out of a sandbox to here. Does it look right? -SusanLesch (talk) 18:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Never mind, I am learning how to do this. Thanks anyway and best of luck to you for your project. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

@SusanLesch: first off, thank you for improving an old FA! Also, you added the mean daily temperature, but got rid of mean daily maximum, which you can also find in the NOWdata you cited. Not a huge deal, as there aren't a ton of featured articles that have the climate section. I don't believe that weather chart has been codified, so just the fact you've updated it and cited it is an improvement. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:01, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Hurricanehink, thank you for your quick reply. Would you be interested in helping me with articles in Featured article review? Frankly the task is daunting and our chances of success are never great. The {{weatherbox}} confounds me. Now I am working on Minneapolis in my sandbox. What I see is that someone came through and gave complete data but now it's all out of date. If you could help at least until I understand the problem that would be wonderful. In the past I have had to treat climate as a black box. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:31, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

@SusanLesch:, count me in. It looks like the information lines up with the National Weather Service website - [1]. The other thing we need to note is that the monthly high/low/average are based on a 30 year average from 1991 to 2020, and also where the averages are based out of. Regarding where the info comes from (and how to cite it), I did some research, but I'm not finding much yet, so I asked an online weather forum (Storm2k), and I emailed the Twin Cities National Weather Service. We're gonna need a source for the weather data going back to 1873, as well as where that location is. Apparently it's the airport now, but it would be good to be able to say when it was placed there, and where it was before. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:40, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh, joy! What a relief you are, Hurricanehink.

I am an election worker and unavailable for the most part until March 7. Minneapolis is my priority FAR (after the park, which just got one keep vote!). Discussion could be on Minneapolis talk, or better at Minneapolis FAR. Or I hope you'll be bold and edit in place. I just reverted to four days ago before I started.

My bias, and you can convince me otherwise: I like NOWData and Weather Atlas. NOWData has options dating back to 1873 (and sometimes before). I don't understand why we need outdated sources (NOAA 1991 to 2020, WMO climate normals 1961 to 1990). Perhaps we can present Minneapolis climate more succinctly (maybe a simpler version than the old one could omit relative humidity, dew point and sunny days). Weather Atlas has the UV index by month. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

P.S. Location is explained in a footnote. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

@SusanLesch: - done, I believe, added to the Minneapolis article! (hope I didn't mess up) ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:34, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Wow, you are awesome. Thank you again. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:44, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Squall line

Before I nominate the above article for a GA reassessment, is it possible for any editors to cite the tagged unsourced passages in the body? Please ping me if you can/have done so. Many thanks, ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:03, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion for Tornado outbreak of December 9–10, 2023

There is an ongoing move discussion for the Tornado outbreak of December 9–10, 2023 article. Feel free to participate in it here. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Merge Proposal Active For Tornado outbreak of April 19–20, 2023

There is an ongoing merge proposal for Tornado outbreak of April 19–20, 2023. You can participate in the discussion here: Talk:Tornado outbreak of April 19–20, 2023#Merge proposal. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Climate of... articles

• Draft:Climate of North America
• Draft:Climate of Oceania
• Draft:Climate of South America

These three articles are all needed, and are of fairly high importance. They are currently redirects. Recently, I went through the other climate articles to make sure there were links for tornadoes and tropical cyclone effects. Africa, Europe, and Asia are all done, but could use some expansion. I think it's pretty bad that we don't have any articles for these continents, so I made drafts for the continents that need climate articles. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Tropical Depression 05F (2024)

An article that you have been involved in editing—Tropical Depression 05F (2024)—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. HurricaneEdgar 11:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Tropical cyclone basins

Tropical cyclone basins has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Ongoing Requested Move Discussion

There is a proposed and ongoing requested move discussion to move 2023–24 US winter to 2023–24 North American winter. You can participate in the discussion here: Talk:2023–24 US winter#Requested move 7 March 2024. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

IF scale addition needed

Can someone who knows their way around template code add an option for the International Fujita scale to Template:Tornado Chart? The List of European tornadoes in 2024 needs a similar monthly tornado chart to the List of United States tornadoes from January to March 2024, so an addition/option for the IF-scale on the template would help with that. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Proposal - Criteria for inclusion on Tornadoes of XXXX articles

One of the biggest struggles in tornado articles has been the lack of clear criteria for what can be listed on Tornadoes of XXXX articles (i.e. Tornadoes of 2024, ect.). So, I am wanting to propose some base criteria for inclusion.

1. Signficiant tornado in an event (F2–F5 or EF2–EF5 or IF2–IF5)
2. Injury or death occurred from the tornado or tornadic event
3. A tornado outbreak outside of the United States (Significant tornadoes not required)
4. Rare oddities - Addition of event is assumed to be suitable under silent consensus until questioned. Once questioned, a case-by-case discussion can occur. (Example would be fire tornadoes).

• Any tornado or tornado event not qualifying under one of these criteria would not be mentioned directly on the Tornadoes of XXXX articles, however, it/they would be listed in yearly tornado list articles (US by month, Europe, Canada, Asia, ect.).

So, what does the community thing about setting this as the base criteria for Tornadoes of XXXX articles?

Discussion (Criteria proposal)

• Support as proposer. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:39, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

  Support We need some sort of criteria with the way we are changing up this article. The only thing I would caution against is saying any tornado outbreaks outside of the U.S.; I'm not sure I agree with that one. ChessEric 21:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

  To be fair, tornado outbreaks themselves outside of the US are rare with maybe 3-4 a year. Chances are strong for it to pass the significant criteria or casualty criteria, but that covers things like unrated China tornado outbreaks (Tornadoes of 2021#July 11–13 (China)) where sometimes 6+ tornadoes occur with little to not injuries or deaths. That example had an EF2/EF3 with 9 EFUs. It passes the casualty criteria due to a death and 11 injuries, but things like that would be covered under that criteria. An outbreak is already 6 or more tornadoes from the same system. For now, I think having any non-US outbreaks would be fine since maybe only a handful in history would not pass any of the other two criteria. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

  Dumb me should have kept scrolling. Tornadoes of 2021#October 31 (England) is a perfect example of that criteria. 7 FUs and 1 F1. If that criteria was not in place, that outbreak would have to be excluded/removed from the article, despite being referenced by an academic published paper. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

  Hi, there! I'm very new here, and do not plan to make too many future edits, but I would like to offer a bit of insight. As a Chicago-area native, I felt inclined to add some more detail to the February 27–28 event, seeing as, though we have warnings at least a couple of times a year, we do not often have significant, confirmed tornado outbreaks.

  That said, I agree with most of your list, and I do appreciate seeing the tornado outbreaks outside of the US, as well.

  I do think it would be wise to add another point to the list: any sort of anomaly in storm watching is something that would be wise to include, in my opinion. February 27–28 is a perfect example: seeing 11 tornadoes touch down in one evening in Chicagoland is unheard of, even more so seeing that they hit highly populated areas north of the city, and in some towns that have never seen a tornado before. Since the outbreak consisted of mostly of EF0 and EF1 tornadoes, much of the outbreak might be considered null and excluded under your current proposal, but it's still notable. I'd imagine the same would go for another city like Minneapolis or Detroit, if they were to incur such an outbreak. I can't venture a guess what other anomalies might be, but something like this, an outbreak in a location that's normally still experiencing full-on winter at this time, is important to note. Scramblescramble (talk) 00:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

  @Scramblescramble: I don’t think storm watching anomalies would qualify a storm system for inclusion unless it involved scientific research (i.e. Doppler on Wheels, ect…) Also, the outbreak would not be excluded under the proposed criteria. If only one of the (3) criteria is passed, then the entire tornadic event is included. The whole point of the Tornadoes of (Year) articles is to summarize the global impacts of tornadoes. Most tornadoes only need to have 1 or 2 sentences on that article, including strong tornadoes. The actual tornado summary is in the yearly list articles (like List of United States tornadoes from January to March 2024). For instance, in reality, the February 27-28 section you are referring to should be shrunk as only four tornadoes were actually significant. I’m not saying remove the information entirely about the weaker tornadoes, but only a brief summarized passing mention is needed for those, since the yearly list articles have the detailed summary. Basically, the events are included if they pass one of the first three criteria, with that fourth criteria point being for rare events that editors think should or may need to be included, but don’t pass one of the first three points.

  The February 8, 2024 (US) section on Tornadoes of 2024 is a good example of the criteria in use. There was an EF2, which caused an injury (so it actually passed two of the criteria at the same time). And since the storm system passed one (two) of the criteria, it is fully included, meaning the two associated EF1s also are mentioned briefly. Hopefully that explains the proposed criteria. So it isn’t removing tornadoes that don’t pass it, but rather saying if a tornado in a tornadic event passes the criteria, the event needs a mention in the yearly article. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 05:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

• Mostly support – I only disagree with having a section for any EF2. We don’t necessarily need sections for days that have one EF2 or just 3 or 4 EF0s and one short-lived EF2. Those can be exceptions to the rule. United States Man (talk) 17:24, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Now if there is an EF3, it is likely worth mentioning in a section. Otherwise, we need to cut down on all these subsections because the page with get way too long and drawn out. United States Man (talk) 17:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)