Talk:Afrique Victime/GA2

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: TheNuggeteer (talk · contribs) 09:55, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk · contribs) 22:00, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I'll review this. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 22:00, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Prose is good.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Lead section summarizes the article. Layout is good. Does not contain weasel words or other words to watch.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Has a list of references.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Reliable sources are cited inline.
	2c. it contains no original research.	Accurately reflects what is in sources about the album.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	No copyright violation; direct quotes are attributed.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Addresses the album's background, recording, release, promotion, reception, and themes.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Information is relevant to the album.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Mentions positive reviews appropriately, and does not embellish or editorialize the album's influence.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	Article is stable.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Copyrighted image of album cover has obvious rationale. Other images are free.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Photos of performances are relevant.
	7. Overall assessment.	Good.

Quickfail criteria

• 1. Y
• 2. Y Although Earwig flags a 79.3% similarity, all the matches are quotes from Moctar. The article correctly attributes these quotes. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:49, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• 3. Y No cleanup banners.
• 4. Y Article is stable.
• 5. Y A previous GA review quickfailed this article because the version at the time was not broad in its coverage. Since then, you have expanded the article significantly and addressed all the concerns brought up the first time.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 22:43, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin A month ago, I remember checking the article for Copyvios, with a 56.7 percentage (from what I can remember), I don't think many major edits were included after that. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 22:51, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

First impressions

• A bit too much of "On May 21, 2021, [song X] was released." This is simply redundant as the album was released on that date.
• Most sources look good, even if some are smaller publications. However, The Fire Note and ThePsychRock.com appear to be blogs, Genius.com and Sonichits are user-generated, and you cite a few record stores which are not editorial publications (Nail City Records, Capsule Records).
• A few quotes should be attributed, such as the "gateway" description in the lead section.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 22:43, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I feel like The Fire Note and ThePsychRock.com is pretty reliable, will remove the others. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 23:23, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Can you explain what makes these sources reliable? I'm not seeing that they're peer reviewed, or have been cited by other sources. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 23:05, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Both of these sources are used as opinions, not for information, so these sources do no harm. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:33, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia's guidelines on self-published sources still apply here. WikiProject Albums says: "Professional reviews may include only reviews written by professional journalists or DJs, or found within any online or print publication having a (paid or volunteer) editorial and writing staff (which excludes personal blogs). The standard for inclusion always is that the review meet Wikipedia's guideline for reliable sources and that the source be independent of the artist, record company, etc." — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:42, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Will also remove the bandcamp sources, as stated from the previous review, since the date released is no need (except if it's different). 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 23:25, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 23:32, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Lead section

• It was also described as the gateway for Mdou Moctar's popularity. By whom? — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

   Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

• The sentence Several critics added the album to their end-of-year best album lists for 2021, including The New York Times, Pitchfork, The Guardian, Rolling Stone, and Consequence. should be moved to the "Reception" section. The lead should be less specific. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:49, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

   Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 08:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Background

• Mentioning his debut album seems tangential, especially if its source is just a listing of a concert.
• I don't see a source for the list of his previous albums. This should be removed, as it's tangential to the article, unless the albums are mentioned in the context of Afrique Victime.
• I would say the subsection "Documentary" seems misplaced; I would expect "Recording process" to come before it. Maybe move "Documentary" to "Release and touring", since it came after the release?
• Mdou Moctar is the name of the singer as well as his band, but the article at points isn't clear which it's referring to. For example: since Mdou Moctar, as he said in an interview with Reverb, is reluctant to spend too much time cooped up in a studio, they recorded the album in intervals, over a few weeks. (If "they" is the band, then write "the band" to be clear.)
• There are some other grammatical errors, and style errors such as overusing the word "also". I'll copyedit the article later.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The albums seem important for the context of the switching from Sahel Sounds to Matador, from which the switch is broad enough to mention in the article. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:41, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The way you have written it, it's original synthesis. None of the sources you've cited mention him switching from Sahel Sounds to Matador. However, other sources mention the switch, such as this New York Times article, so you could rewrite it to reflect this. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:45, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 08:44, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

This is better, but I still think Anar is not relevant to the article. There's no real connection between his first album and Afrique Victime. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 16:56, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin Is it okay now? 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 23:20, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, this is good. It looks like there's no original research now, so I just have to do the source spotcheck to confirm this.— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:27, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:42, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Release and touring

• Lead section uses DMY but this uses MDY. Which one are we using? (Either one could work, since the album was recorded in both the U.S. and Niger.)
• You cite the announcement of the tour, but it'd be better to use sources from during or after the tour. (It's possible that, say, Mdou Moctar announced tour locations that were later cancelled.)

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin Will do later since my location has a power outage. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 00:51, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Can't find a reliable source for the tour. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

That's okay. I have double-checked whether there are sources and I only see routine reviews. I will accept the Pitchfork source for the statement you have. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:43, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Tracks

• Direct quotes seem unnecessary in this sentence: The songs are powered by his left-hand playing, and his "unique sprawling style", with a "vibrant soundscape" ranging from Chismiten to Bismilahi Atagah. I would suggest something like They feature Moctar's left-handed guitar style, with hammer-ons from his right hand, and energetic riffs. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• The songs were also described as "intense". By whom? Probably should be in the "Reception" section, anyway. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• Some quotes should be attributed, like "happy and joyful vibe", "lose their sense of self", etc. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• Some quotes could be paraphrased, like "stuttering percussion and grainy acoustics". — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• I think the thing about "friends and family" might work better as a quote, since the term "friends and family" on its own doesn't really mean much. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• The song was also described as a "sandstorm of music", with a "relatively relaxed mode". By whom? — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• The song reportedly contains "punchy drum machine fills" and a "psychedelic swirl" and also reportedly contains some group harmonies. No need to say it was "reported"; just say what the source says, and paraphrase the quotes. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• I don't see a source that "Bismilahi Atagah" is about God. If there aren't sources about the song, it's fine to leave it out of this section. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• I think maybe "Deluxe Edition and Nakanegh Dich" and "Afrique Refait" could be under a separate section; the way it is now makes it look like these are the titles of tracks in the album. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

   Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 08:53, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Reception

• Do we need to have a sentence listing star ratings, when the same information is in a table? It looks like other articles on albums just list several ratings in the table. I think the sentence is harder to read than the table. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

   Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 08:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Other comments

• The "Political context" section and the rest of the article look good. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

  Finished with everything. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 08:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

• Lead section should probably be rewritten to be a better summary of the article. Right now, it places too much weight on the reception (doesn't need a list of positive reviews), and it doesn't mention the political themes at all.— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:27, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

   Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:01, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Source spotcheck

As of this version

1. Y Except the infobox should list the studio as "multiple locations" instead of Niamey. Also, it doesn't mention murder.
2. Y Maybe include this source in "Background" instead of the lead?
3. Y
4. Y
5. Y
6. N Source mentions that some parts are French, but does not specify which parts.
7. N The source actually says they were all recording together in Niger.
8. Y Now that I read the source, it might be better to phrase the sentence without saying it was "described" (just state it as a fact).
9. Y But, as I've already mentioned, I don't think this fact is relevant to the article.
10. Y But this source also doesn't mention Afrique Victime, so maybe leave it out.
11. N/Y Doesn't mention that he made a switch to Matador Records.
12. Y
13. Y
14. Y It doesn't quite say it was his first album of the genre, but you could say it as "Compared to his previous work..."
15. Y
16. N/Y Doesn't mention the three-note beat.
17. Y It says 203 people were killed, not 202.
18. Y Except it doesn't mention water.
19. Y
20. N Doesn't mention yards.
21. Y
22. Y
23. Y
24. Y
25. Y
26. Y
27. Y
28. Y
29. Y Could maybe be more specific here, and mention that the political situation prevented them from touring.
30. Y
31. Y Except you mention "other types of shows", which are not mentioned.
32. Y Maybe specify takamba?
33.   The Fire Note is not a reliable source.
34. Y Although the phrasing "and a climax" isn't very informative. Maybe "slow buildups to a climax"?
35. Y
36. N/Y The quotes "fluttery sound" and "happy and joyful vibe" do not appear.
37. Y
38. N
39. Y Instead of phrasing it as "weddings and certain parts of Niger" maybe just say "weddings and markets in Niger"?
40. Y However, I don't think this quote is necessary if it's not in any secondary sources.
41. Y Except the exact quote "slinky love song" doesn't appear.
42. Y Though it seems out-of-context.
43. Y
44. Y
45. Y
46. Y
47. Y
48. Y
49. Y
50. Y
51. Y Though your phrasing is confusing.
52. Y
53. N The quote is "sandstorm of noise".
54. Y
55.   If you only have a primary source about this remix, it's not relevant.
56. Y
57. Y Though the phrase "psychedelic swirl" is meaningless without knowing it's about guitar.
58. N Mentions guitar, not a guitar solo.
59. N Doesn't mention the meaning of the title.
60. Y
61. Y Though it feels like you're singling out Kabeaushé out of all the artists listed.
62. Y
63. Y
64. Y
65. Y
66. Y
67. Y
68. Y
69. Y
70. Y
71. Y
72.   The Fire Note is not a reliable source.
73. Y
74.   ThePsychRock is not a reliable source.
75. Y
76. Y
77. Y
78. Y
79. Y
80. N Doesn't say the word "intense".
81. Y
82. Y
83. N You say "racial discrimination", but this isn't how the source describes it.
84. Y
85. And the rest of the sources are just charts so I'll assume it's accurate.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:11, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I remember that I messed up some of the sources. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 04:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Will not remove source 10, vital to its' context. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 09:24, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think this source is vital to its context. Again, the source does not mention Afrique Victime at all, so it isn't important for an article about Afrique Victime. Instead, I would suggest you cite a similar claim in the guitar.com source. The source mentions that Ilana the Creator was his previous album, before he switched to Matador. The source doesn't mention Sahel Sounds, so if you think that's important to mention, you could cite the New York Times source. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:22, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Changed the quotes for source 36 a bit. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 09:50, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the phrase "joyful vibe" is encyclopedic. Also, it doesn't make sense to cite Financial Times in parentheses, especially since you're using three different sources for this sentence. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:19, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

What's wrong with source 38? 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 09:51, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't look like that source mentions the rooster sound or the sound of footsteps. However, you have since rewritten the sentence to mention the "psychedelic" guitar, and the source does back this up, so ok. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:17, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 10:57, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Fixed everything (probably). 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 04:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Copyediting and comments on style

• I just took some time to copyedit the article. I have a few comments I think you should keep in mind:
• Some of my fixes were to simple grammatical errors. Remember that song titles are in quotation marks, and titles of publications are in italics. Common nouns should not be capitalized. Commas should not be used to combine two sentences.
• A good article is supposed to be concise, and you had some problems with this. The most frequent problem was your overuse of the word "also"—this can almost always be avoided. Also, phrases like "reportedly" should be avoided. In general, you should try to make sentences as brief as possible without losing information.
• Similarly, you overdid attributions to sources. You only need to attribute a claim to a source if is opinionated or debatable. You shouldn't say something like "According to Source XYZ, the song includes guitar." since no one would debate that. If there's a direct quote, you have to attribute it, but you shouldn't use direct quotes to describe objective facts.
• Your article was mildly underlinked. You should have linked terms like Nokia 6120, takamba, etc., as readers may not be immediately familiar with them.
• I also tweaked the lead section. It was already acceptable before, but I think it's clearer as multiple paragraphs, and I mentioned a few more facts from the body. I also included some facts from the lead in the body.
• Besides these prose issues, the article is good. You've improved it a lot since the first failed GA nomination, and it's now very thorough. You've also inspired me to listen to this album—I had barely heard of Mdou Moctar before this, and it turns out he's really good! :)

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:16, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.