Talk:Alas, Babylon

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Is quoting an unpublished source OR?[edit]

I don't know whether including the "personal reminiscences" of a former civil defence official can be used unless it has been published. I believe WP:NOR prohibits this sort of thing. Thoughts? 23skidoo 01:47, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest references published in a fix form a cited according to an accepted and verifiable standard. Newsandrumor 21:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
True, but I was there when he said it. GABaker 23:29 18 Oct 2006
It is OR. However, it is also in violation of WP:V, since it cannot be independently verified. Have removed this content. Yaf 02:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

"Racial segregation"[edit]

All that is shown in the book itself is that they disregard some segregation signs in a park for economic convenience...is that enough for the statement at hand to be true?24.73.17.162 05:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


Randy disregarded the henrys race and made them a part of the community. He also allowed Caleb to be part of the school while noting that only 2/3 of the country did not segregate the schools. Another example is how he did not segregate the militia. So either you need to go read the book or get off the drugs. XD --Aegisxgundam 00:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Plot introduction[edit]

It is most correct to say that "Fort Repose" is based upon a somewhat hybrid of Mandarin, FL; Tangerine; "Greater Mount Dora" including Pistolville and certain African-American areas which had become de facto segregated after the 1920's. Frank himself would only state that Fort Repose was somewhere within 100 miles of Orlando and based upon Mandarin. However, no other place name of "Pistolville" has been identified in FL other than that adjoining Mt. Dora. It will also be noted that the Bragg house was outside the town proper. The existing references are sufficient to support this conclusion. It should be said that virtually no published bio of Frank (including his publisher's) makes any mention of his having lived in Tangerine. Ms. Owen's book reflects the remembrances of town resident's acquainted with Frank, who was no stranger to the local newspaper either. It seems that to maintain the intrique regarding Fort Repose, he desired to obscure the fact that he lived within perhaps walking distance of Pistolville. Newsandrumor 18:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:AlasBabylon.jpg[edit]

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Adaptations[edit]

I removed the following assertion: The television show Jericho is arguably a modern take on this tale.

I've seen the series and read the book, and I don't see any support for this assertion whatsoever. Alas, Babylon is a tale of post-apocalyptic survival, while Jericho is a more action-oriented storyline that follows two drifters who help establish a new U.S. government in the face of a series of rival regional gangs.

Anyone who sees parallels I don't, post them for debate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pipedreamergrey (talkcontribs) 23:50, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

While I wouldn't call Jericho and adaption, I'd say it takes heavy marks from Frank's novel. They even use the name Randy Peyton in the series! 71.115.129.28 (talk) 05:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

You're confusing the TV series Jericho with the TV series Jeremiah. Jeremiah is about 2 drifters and regional gangs, Jericho is about a town and it's people (Yes I am aware the comments above are years old)

Too much focus on beginning[edit]

I think that the novel summary is too focused on The Day, which is essentially an intro to the book, which is actually about the survival after the day. Also the books ending involving the fact that the United States "clobbered them" in the war is somewhat of a twist ending and should probably be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.241.27.81 (talk) 10:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Character Section[edit]

There should be a short section with the names of the main characters and their roles in the stories. On second thought.......would I be allowed to make it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gelatart (talkcontribs) 13:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Be bold. Cactus Wren (talk) 00:35, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

The Bible passage is not interpreted to mean nuclear war[edit]

The passage is actually the signal from the main character's brother letting him know that the war was about to start. It refers to their hometown preacher's habit of using the phrase in many of his sermons. It is not directly interpreted to mean nuclear war or holocaust by the characters in the book. It is an indirect reference to the war by the author, not the characters in the book. --KJRehberg (talk) 18:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe the author means to imply that nuclear war is winnable[edit]

The existing entry stated that "the author advances the argument that nuclear war is winnable," or something to this effect. I completely disagree, and even the supporting statements provided in the article (which I did not change) are consistent with the statement I created, which says "the author employs irony to cloud the question of whether or not a nuclear war is winnable." One could say that the question is open-ended, but I'm pretty sure Pat Frank considers a nuclear war unwinnable, since the cost is so dire (eradication of most of the population, and the reduction of national status to sub-third world) that the idea of victory is moot.

That the residents of Fort Repose would rather go it alone than join the rest of the United States should be evidence alone that the country was basically destroyed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.175.222.116 (talk) 03:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Add to References[edit]

Pat Frank's Alas Babylon 50 Years Later http://jacksonville.com/lifestyles/literature/2009-06-12/story/pat_franks_alas_babylon_50_years_later Thanks for your great article, Regards, Rumjal rumjal 12:16, 17 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumjal (talkcontribs)

Fort Repose is Mount Dora?[edit]

In the book, Fort Repose is described as a town located on the east bank of the Saint Johns River. Also, the main character in the story takes FL-50 to get to/from Orlando when he visits his brother at McCoy AFB. This would put the town, as far as I can tell, across the river from Christmas (a location that is not populated). However, if you look at the background information about Fort Repose, it sounds very similar to the history of Fort Christmas. What evidence do you have that Fort Repose is based on Mount Dora? Baron52 (talk) 04:09, 24 February 2011 (UTC)