Talk:Albert Gore

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Move. —Wknight94 (talk) 18:19, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Albert Arnold Gore → Albert Gore — use simpler, most common name JHunterJ 13:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

Support per nom. --Dhartung | Talk 11:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. --Serge 19:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Add any additional comments:

Are both of the people on the page named Albert Arnold Gore? It would seem fine for this current title to redirect to a page names Albert Gore btw. Ansell 11:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the "Senior" and "Junior" suffixes are used to distinguish father and son who have the same first, middle, and last names. -- JHunterJ 11:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Which name should link to Al Gore?

Since the name of the article on Al Gore (jr.) is Al Gore, it's Al Gore that should link to it on the dab page. --Serge 19:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification of the above: Since the name of the article on Al Gore (jr.) is Al Gore, the wikilink to his page on this dab page should be Al Gore, not Albert Gore, Jr. --Serge 23:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:MOSDAB#Piping which states that linking to a redirect that matches the disambiguation title is the preferred style. -- JHunterJ 19:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OTOH, it could be that Al Gore Sr. is more likely to be sought by people reaching this page; he should then be first, and the entry with a direct link to Al Gore could be second (as its current format would place it according to the style guidelines). -- JHunterJ 19:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, in the example provided, there is nothing in common beween the target at actual name and the title of the dab page. But here, we're just talking about whether to link through the actual formal name just because that's the name of the dab page rather than through the more commonly used shorter name which is the actual title. I think it's useful to use the actual title in this case to make clear that that's who we're talking about (the one most commonly referred to as Al Gore). --Serge 20:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But this isn't Al Gore (disambiguation). You're right, the Delta example given isn't this case; it's just an example. The guideline given applies though. We're dabbing Albert Gore (or will be soon), so we should link to the Albert Gores. Synonym links (like to Al Gore) would go after the closer matches, which is why the guideline recommends linking to these kinds of redirects in dabs -- even though (by definition) the redirect isn't the most common way of referring to the article's subject. "Albert Gore Jr. or Al Gore" makes it clear who we're talking about regardless of which is linked. -- JHunterJ 20:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. --Serge 21:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, if the decision is that close that people are going to waste time discussing it, instead of working improving the encyclopedia, then redirect the unsure page name to a disambiguation page. There really is no sense in wasting time over such things. People will survive having to click twice to get to the page they want instead of once. Ansell 20:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

What? What two clicks are you talking about? I was under the impression that "wasting time" on the Talk pages is what they are there for; certainly better than a revert-war. Please don't waste time telling others to stop wasting time when they are just talking about style guidelines. -- JHunterJ

The eventual result of choosing one page to redirect to, over the other, is that there will be two clicks to get to the page of the person who was not chosen. How major a difference is that in the overall encyclopedia scheme? I would say that it is not even worth doing this, but hey, you responded so nicely, I had to respond. Ansell 22:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I too am having difficulty understanding what you're talking about. First, I think you're referring to the above survey, which is not what anyone else was discussing in this subsection. So that's probably contributing to some of the confusion. Second, the survey is about whether this dab page should be called A or B. Either way, either A or B will take the user to this page, and the user will have to make a 2nd click to get to whichever Albert Gore he is looking for. Third, perhaps you think it has been suggested that "Albert Gore" should redirect to one of the Albert Gore pages directly, rather than to this dab page? No one, so far as I can tell, has proposed that. --Serge 22:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Since the name of the article on Al Gore (jr.) is Al Gore, it's Al Gore that should link to it on the dab page." is the cause of confusion.

My interpretation of the above was that "Since we call the Jnr person 'Al Gore' on his page, the link Al Gore should be linked directly to 'Albert Arnold Gore Jr' instead of to 'Albert Arnold Gore' ". Im sorry, the three uses of Al Gore in one sentence with the unclear "dab" page reference makes for interesting reading.

BTW, No, I was not referring to the survey, that seemed like just a change involving this page, not in anyway the linked pages. Ansell 23:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

JHunterJ, check this out on the dab page for plane:

Short for Aeroplane or Airplane, referred to by aircraft engineers as a fixed-wing aircraft

Your argument applied to that page says that line should be something like:

Short for Aeroplane or Airplane

Right? That just seems wrong. I think the name the target article is actually at is at that name for a reason, and that name and reason should not be obscured on the dab page that points to that article. --Serge 03:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My argument applied to that page would make it something like:

Aeroplane

or perhaps

Aeroplane or airplane, a fixed-wing aircraft

No pipe links. In that instance an argument could be made to use the redirect target since both aeroplane and airplane redirect to the same thing, and we want to avoid multiple blue links in a line, but there's no need to link both aero- and air- in that one. -- JHunterJ 14:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, still, I think the link on the dab page should be clear about where it is taking you, as the links on the plane dab page are, and not take you there through a redirect. In other words, since the destination article is at fixed-wing aircraft, the line should be:

Aeroplane or airplane, a fixed-wing aircraft

I don't think the guideline at WP:MOSDAB#Piping accurately reflects the convention actually used on most dab pages. In any case, piping is not an issue since there is no piping involved here. --Serge 15:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Links to Albert Gore

There are currently 17 links to [[Albert Gore]]. From the context of each, it is clear that 13 of them are referring to the VP/jr., 3 to Senior, and one intentionally refers to the dab page. Based on this, I think it is at least as likely that folks reaching this page are looking for the younger rather than the older, and probably more like about 3 out of 4. --Serge 19:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]