Talk:Alex Berenson/Archive 1

Archive 1

Merging of Series

At this point, we have three pages that are all stubs, should they be made into a meta series page since all three (soon to be four) books are based on the same character (John Wells - Who does not have a page based on himself) or merged into the author's page Alex Berenson

Articles in Question
The Faithful Spy
The Ghost War Some errors of fact in this book, although perhaps only an Iraq-Afghan veteran such as myself would notice them. The book read like it was written by a journalist rather than a soldier, as indeed it was. Also, the dialogue was fairly stale; nobody got angry but just "pissed off," and characters didn't go outside but their "ass" went outside, lame stuff like that instead of graceful or interesting prose.
The Silent Man
The Midnight House

Thank you for your time --»Wolfnix« 00:02, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Tell Your Children Section Heading

Hey @Avatar317: I'm wondering if the "Tell Your Children" part of that section heading should be italicized to help separate it from the fact that it's controversial, which is what the section is actually about. I've searched through MOS:ITALICS and other areas of the MoS that I expected would give some insight into this, but I haven't been able to find anything relevant to italics in section headings. In the J. K. Rowling page (a featured article), this section has a combination of italics and normal text in the section header, so I presume it's in line with the MoS or I imagine it would not have become a featured article. I think it would help ensure new readers understand the (partial) title of the book is Tell Your Children, and nothing to do with the concept of "controversy" itself. Perhaps a section heading along the lines of Tell Your Children book controversy might demonstrate the section's purpose more fluidly. What do you think?

@Matt18224: I agree, Tell Your Children book controversy would be a better section heading. Wikipedia is always a work in progress, and I definitely don't always compose the optimal wording; thank you for suggesting this! ---Avatar317^(talk) 20:10, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Some links describing Berenson's latest foray: criticizing Covid-19 epidemiological models

• An Ex-New York Times Reporter Has Become the Right’s Go-To Coronavirus Skeptic - Alex Berenson, a journalist and thriller writer, is being quoted on Breitbart and appearing on Fox News—even going too far for Sean Hannity.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/ex-new-york-times-alex-berenson-coronavirus-skeptic

• Meet the former NYT reporter who is challenging the coronavirus narrative

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-nyt-reporter-challenging-the-coronavirus-narrative

• Does the King of the COVID-19 Contrarians Have a Case? - Alex Berenson, thriller writer, former Timesman, and marijuana alarmist, thinks scientists, politicians, and the media are fueling coronavirus hysteria. Some scientists think he’s dead wrong. “He should go back to school to learn some science,” says one.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/does-the-king-of-the-covid-19-contrarians-have-a-case

---Avatar317^(talk) 22:35, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2021

add a source for the following claim, specifically with reference to particular false claims that he has made. “Berenson has appeared frequently in United States right-wing media, making numerous false claims about the virus and its vaccines.“ 2600:1000:B066:877B:B5C9:C69D:2DC:1CC3 (talk) 00:24, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done I have added an appropriate citation, as the body of the article doesn't really talk about right-wing media. The specifics of the claims aren't really the kind of detail that goes in the lead; they are detailed in the "Coronavirus pandemic" section Vahurzpu (talk) 01:11, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

August 2021 edits

I added "a proponent of COVID-19 misinformation" to the lead in this edit; my rationale was: "expand lead with material from the article -- COVID-19 misinformation is a key part of what the subject is notable for". Special:Contributions/Afreshup has removed it without providing a justification. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:12, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

The subject's notability is tied to COVID misinformation. It should be in the first sentence. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 16:53, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

I've restored my edit in this diff. Agree that it should be in the first sentence. --K.e.coffman (talk) 16:57, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

big NPOV violation, removed History Man1812 (talk) 14:44, 30 August 2021 (UTC)History_Man1812

clarify how its a npov violation. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 16:55, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2021

Two works by Mr. Berenson are missing from his wiki page: Please add the novel "The Power Couple" from 2021 printed by Simon and Schuster, and the non-fiction audiobook from 2012 titled "The Prince of Beers" chronicling the downfall of August Busch IV 108.7.75.45 (talk) 23:10, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Please provide (minimally) either ISBN numbers or web links to catalogues or the publisher's website to confirm this information. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:06, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Add missing word to “Career” section

Small typo in last paragraph of “Career” section - the word Twitter is missing here. Can someone fix since this is a locked page?

On August 28, 2021, permanently suspended Berenson for repeated violations of its policy on COVID-19 misinformation.[30] 136.49.7.147 (talk) 03:29, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Add Telegram Page to External Links

Alex said he has a Telegram page, t.me/Alex_Berenson 2600:1014:B0EB:1519:81FB:B3BA:7B3B:D3D (talk) 18:48, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Apparently Alex's Telegram page was started by a ghost writer and then taken over by him at a later date. This is a recent post saying it is his page: https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/a-word-on-censorship/comments?s=r Michaeolson (talk) 23:55, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done per WP:ELMIN. There's no reason to have that many external links to official pages. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 23:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2022

1) Opening sentence "Alexander Berenson (born January 6, 1973) is an American writer and conspiracy theorist" is hardly neutral, as per your guidelines. Suggestion: Change "conspiracy theorist" to "best-selling author".

2) No mention on this page of his book "Pandemia", published more than 6 months ago.

Thank you. 70.50.36.126 (talk) 16:23, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: "Neutral" does not mean what you think it means (see WP:NPOV: "all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic."). "Best-selling author" would, on top of that, be borderline promotion. As for the book, there is no mention of it because nobody has found or added an independent reliable source discussing it. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 17:18, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

"Conspiracy theorist" demands explanation from neutral sources. Cdnshipsnote (talk) 23:19, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Go read NPOV (as linked above) instead of using talk pages as a soapbox. Source are not required to be neutral, and we also prefer higher-quality sources (such as academic papers and similar documents written by qualified experts). That they overwhelmingly describe this as conspiracy nonsense is more of an accurate reflection of reality than of anything else. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:31, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2022

Change:

During the coronavirus pandemic, Berenson appeared frequently in American right-wing media, spreading false claims about COVID-19 and its vaccines.[3] He spent much of the pandemic arguing that its seriousness was overblown; once COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out, he made false claims about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.

To:

During the coronavirus pandemic, Berenson appeared frequently in American right-wing media, sharing controversial claims about COVID-19 and its vaccines.[3] He spent much of the pandemic arguing that its seriousness was overblown; once COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out, he made inflammatory claims about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. 159.196.169.187 (talk) 01:54, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: There have been numerous attempts to edit these sentences, however, per our policy on adhering to a neutral point of view Wikipedia relays what is stated in independent, reliable sources. I also find it to be misleading to equate the spreading of misinformation as controversial claims or inflammatory claims. I would advise you, and anyone else wanting the lead adjusted, obtain consensus rather than making an edit request unless the edit is uncontroversial. —Sirdog (talk) 02:40, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2022

Change:

On August 28, 2021, Twitter permanently suspended Berenson for repeated violations of its policy on COVID-19 misinformation.

To: On August 28, 2021, Twitter "permanently" suspended Berenson for repeated violations of its policy on COVID-19 misinformation.

Reason: if the word "permanently" is not in quotes it would imply, that Berenson is still suspended from Twitter, which is not the case (https://www.insider.com/alex-berenson-twitter-covid-vaccine-posts-2021-8). The word "permanently" should still be used, as Twitter called it a "permanent suspension" back then.

The article should be extended by the events that happened after January 2022:

In July 2022 a Twitter spokesperson acknowledged "Mr. Berenson's Tweets should not have led to his suspension at that time." Twitter reversed the "permanent" account suspension on July 6, 2022. (https://www.insider.com/alex-berenson-twitter-covid-vaccine-posts-2021-8)

Internal Twitter documents, that Berenson retrieved during his lawsuit against Twitter, quote a Twitter-employee saying, that U.S. government advisor Andy Slavitt pressured Twitter to suspend Berenson's account.(https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/12/alex-berenson-claims-biden-team-pushed-his-ban-twi/) Berenson announced on Twitter on August 12, 2022, that he will sue the U.S. government for "this state action and a violation of my First Amendment rights"(https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1558060844549902338) ArnoHieronymus (talk) 04:46, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

"Right wing media"?

Apparently, Alex Berenson appeared on Joe Rogan's show today (4 Oct 2021). I don't believe that Rogan is considered to be "right wing media" so that line in the article may need to be changed. Respectfully, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.69.229 (talk) 18:29, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Agree, this should be changed to American media. TiMike (talk) 11:35, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. Whether media is right or left should be irrelevant to the accuracy of his claims. This is used as a signal to the reader on how seriously to take the claims based on existing political biases. It should be "American media". Cdnshipsnote (talk) 23:10, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

It should simply say American media. The right-wing part is totally subjective and not a fact. OC1986 (talk) 05:01, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Former Journalist

How does one become a "former journalist"? Wikipedia needs to do something about these activist Wikipedians or shit is gonna get ugly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberMurph (talk • contribs)

"Former journalist" was added in April 2022. For months, it had gone back and forth between "writer and conspiracy theorist" and "writer". Note that in the article it says "In 2010, Berenson left the Times to become a full-time novelist." "Former journalist" is a reasonable description for someone who used to work at The New York Times but is now a full-time novelist. Schazjmd (talk) 21:34, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

He has a blog, publishes journalistic books and articles(?)--Ralfdetlef (talk) 06:06, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

And is therefore still a journalist. CyberMurph (talk) 00:52, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

"Wikipedia needs to do something about these activist Wikipedians or shit is gonna get ugly" Cool threat! Protonk (talk) 19:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

You guys need to update that he sued twitter and won for not spreading misinformation.

Please revise this. 65.196.126.174 (talk) 21:56, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source to support the information. Schazjmd (talk) 22:00, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

The Atlantic. Forich (talk) 22:32, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

his success seems to have hinged on promises made to him by a high-level Twitter employee. [..] Goldman believes that the court’s decision to allow a claim based on that correspondence prompted Twitter to settle.

The court did not say he wasn't spreading misinformation. So, when you write won for not spreading misinformation you are spreading misinformation. --Hob Gadling (talk) 05:48, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

The sentence in the lede, that he was "spreading false claims about COVID-19 and its vaccines" is untrue. Since that 2020 article from which the line is taken was published in 2020, all of Berenson's assertions about the COVID-19 pandemic response and the vaccines have been proven true. The lede needs to be updated with something like, "Berenson was accused of spreading false claims about COVID-19 and its vaccines but, has since been vindicated as all his claims have been found to be true." At a minimum, that sentence needs to be removed as at a minimum it is a gross violation of WP:BLP. 108.18.156.124 (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

You will need reliable sources for that. --Hob Gadling (talk) 16:43, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

False, defamatory information

The claims that he spread misinformation are false, as evidenced by Berenson’s victory in a court case against Twitter. You should know this by now. Your article needs to be corrected otherwise it would be considered defamatory toward mr Berenson. 2600:1017:B818:C8AA:61B4:8756:8BB7:BAC5 (talk) 12:26, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

You are wrong. See the sections #Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2022 and #You guys need to update that he sued twitter and won for not spreading misinformation. above. --Hob Gadling (talk) 12:28, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

“False claims”

Rewrite to alleviate the inherent bias of its author(s). Use term claims but be aware of several government citations which back the subject’s opinions. 68.132.130.55 (talk) 19:44, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

You will need reliable sources for that, and they must be stronger than the ones we use now. "Government" is quite a ridiculous criterion for reliability. --Hob Gadling (talk) 13:43, 28 October 2022 (UTC)