The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no move. —Mets501 (talk) 01:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested Move

Animal Forest → Dōbutsu no Mori

This is the discussion page for the requested move of Animal Forest to Dōbutsu no Mori, turning Animal Forest into a redirect page. This move has been proposed at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Discussion to support or oppose the move should be on this talk page, not the Animal Forest talk page. If, after a few days, a clear consensus for the page move is reached, request further assistance.

Note: this move has already taken place once amid a string of edits on the Animal Forest page and the series template page trying to bring about this name change. Those edits and the move have been reverted and new ones will be until a consensus is reached. For now, Animal Forest is the name of the article and how the Animal Forest article and other articles will refer to the game.

TStein 11:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Opinions

Oppose/Call for clarification I have serious concerns with this proposed move. But first I'd like a clarification. Is the aim of this move simply to change the name of the article, and that's it? Or does this proposal go farther, like the edits that went with the original proposel? Is this a proposal to change the name of the article or change how this game is referred to on wikipedia?

If this is a proposal to change how the game is referred to on wikipedia, then I'll post notices on all of the articles that this would affect.

Now, let me tell you what problems I have with the proposal. If this is to change how the game is referred to, I think that that's a bad idea. "Animal Forest" is how the game is most known and most referred to. Both users who do and don't know the games are likely to be confused if they find "Dōbutsu no Mori" in the Animal Crossing Template or mentioned in the middle of an article. Also, as I've said before, this is wiki English. Why would we use the transliteration of a name instead of the translation, esepcially when the translation is what's know?

Now if you're just proposing changing the name of the article, there's much less confusion elsewhere. But I still don't quite get it. Why would we have the article named one thing and have it be referred to everywhere (including in the article) by another name? Combination said that, "Official naming (or transliteration in this instance) takes precedence over fan perception and recognition", but does transliteration always take precedence over translation?

Again, I'd like clarification by either SeizureDog or Combination, since both of you performed theses edits. TStein 12:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose "Animal Forest" is the English translation of the game's name and this is the English Wiki. It is also the the more familiar term since it is what most English sites and magazines call it (and the fact that the franchis is called Animal Forest in Japan). TJ Spyke 23:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment In Japan, it's known as Dōbutsu no Mori, not *Animaru Foresuto. It could have just as easily been translated Animals' Woods: compare Wario no Mori (ワリオの森), which becomes Wario's Woods on NES, Super NES, and the English localizations of Animal Crossing. --Damian Yerrick (☎) 05:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. By whom was it translated, and when? You haven't provided any evidence of notability thus far. Combination 11:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As you can see by the minor phrasing edit to the first line of the Animal Forest article and the source I added there, the translation "Animal Forest" comes from Nintendo itself and is trademarked. However, I don't as of yet, have an official Nintendo source for the transliteration we are using. It simply happens to be the most used transliteration and used on the more reliable game sites. TStein 07:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimately, the title "Animal Forest" was discarded when they adapted it for Gamecube, it exists in hypothetical form only. Furthermore, I would revise the statement declaring what its supposed translated title is (which we can't verify) with something along the lines of what it would have been released as. Combination 09:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Did you mean to say, "what its supposed transliterated title is"? If we can't verify it, then there's no way it's going to be the title on an article no matter what. It's not verified material. The transliteration we're using is EVERYWHERE, but we have can't find it articles or on the official Nintendo website and it's not that hard for stuff to spread through the gaming community and be everywhere and accepted as fact. We need some source for the transliteration, and there's no way that we could have the article named and located based on something we can't verify.

Yes, reading that article does make it sound like Nintendo was going to use "Animal Forest" as the title for the English version. But, there's no way to know that. That article was published only a month after the original game was released in Japan. At that point the decision had just recently been made to release the game in English and the intense translation had probably just started. Also, it's sorta beside the point what Nintendo was or wasn't going to do. We have a translation of the Japanese verified by Nintendo that they trademarked, that's more than good enough. No one is saying that "Animal Forest" is the name of the game. What is being said, and what I think the article makes perfectly clear is that the name of the game is Japanese, but this is English Wikipedia, so here's a verified translation and a transliteration for you.

And, btw, here are two more sources for you. They're LexusNexus links, so I giving links and quoting the relevant parts since I don't know if you'll be able to access them.

Sines, Shawn (October 7, 2002). "Game Review; Simulation Fans Will Like Interactive Experience". Columbus Dispatch. Retrieved 2007-01-08.

"Nintendo, which created the original Animal Forest games, has dubbed Animal Crossing a "communication game." As strange as that might sound, it fits."

"The game was originally a N64 game in Japan called "Animal Forest", but they have changed it to "Animal Crossing". The game is now for Nintendo Game Cube, it gets 4 out of 5 points and is available now for about $50."

Remember, we still really need a source for the transliteration. Also, Combination, I did ask at the beginning of this discussion for clarification on what you wanted to happen, and I'd still like that. TStein 11:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To keep things as factual as is possible, and I think you need to stop playing games with the transliteration and focus on the issue pertaining to the article title. A product titled "Animal Forest" never materialized in the marketplace, why should we use it as a title? Combination 12:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wish I had come across Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) sooner. Animal Forest should work unless any other objections are raised. Combination 14:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.