Talk:Attention (Doja Cat song)

Lead or promotional single?

Is "Attention" a lead or promotional single? Because, Doja confirmed on Twitter soon after its release that it wasn't meant to be perceived as one. Kamo0606 (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kamo0606: I realised no one actually got to answering this , and since we've gone back to this same conundrum recently , might as well chime in with my answers ..it seems like we have another "Need to Know" situation on our hands. Expand the box for an in-depth explanation.

All factors to keep in mind, in detail

One crucial difference from that discussion, though. She did allude (not explicitly says, mind) she does not mean for it to be the lead by liking a tweet, but there is a conflict with how her official website, obviously run by her label, describes it, which is that it is a single, a comeback one at that . No "promotional" before that. When it comes to this, to which side do we defer ? Personally I think that should be the label-run website, given after all they are the ones who manage Doja Cat and take care of promo (see also this section on WP:SINGLE?). Billboard's coverage of the Scarlet era, which WP:SINGLE? claims is a reliable source for determining single status, even aligns with this description [1] [2] [3] . However, another thing to keep in mind is that primary sources not only contradict each other, but from time to time, they also contradict Wikipedia's standards for a "lead single" or "second single" and so on. I point to this discussion about whether Sam Smith's "Unholy" was the lead single off their latest album despite the existence of another single, "Love Me More", before it, in which OP cited a quotation from Smith's official website: "global success of the unstoppable single 'Unholy' ... undeniable run of success with the lead single from the album". The inference to be drawn is clear, considering the comparatively meagre success of the single that came before "Unholy". Still, we refer to "Unholy" as the second single. This seems to mirror our "Attention" vs. "Paint the Town Red" situation! Although I'd argue that what makes this different is unlike "Attention", no one is arguing that "Love Me More" was not a single (it was sent to radio etc etc). @Landong0818: while yes sending a song to radio immediately makes it a single, whether it performed "commercially well" is not relevant to single status by Wikipedia standards. It may look like a simple criterion at first glance but it's complicated in lots of respects; "Trollz" peaked at number one, sure, and people think of a number one as an indicator of success, but it had zero longevity. We still call "Trollz" a single.

Big TL;DR, "Attention" was not pushed to radio. Doja Cat seems to allude through a liked tweet "Attention" is not the lead. However, her label says it indeed is a comeback single, and Billboard persistently says it is the lead. Landong claims its lacklustre chart performance, overshadowed by the more successful "Paint the Town Red", makes it a promo single, even though commercial performance does not dictate single status or order of singles. So with all this in mind, if our primary sources conflict on whether "Attention" is a single, let alone the lead, do we defer to the label, or to Doja Cat and/or airplay? Pinging frequent editors on the Doja Cat editing sphere @Cybertrip @Rangel Carregosa @Ss112. ‍ ‍ Elias 🌊 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "Will you call me?"}
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 01:48, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Even though i said that Paint the town red did better commercially, Attention still isnt the lead single. Like i stated and you stated, doja confirms herself that it is not the lead single to the album. The song is a droplet promotional single. In order for a song to be considered a single, it must have airplay and be promoted correctly. But Attention received no airplay and was promoted fairly. If one song underperforms and another performs better, it would make sense for the song that performed better, be pushed commercially and that is the situation here with Attention and Paint The Town Red. Attention isn't quite radio friendly so it makes sense as to why it wasn't sent to Radio. Doja discussed topics and criticism in the song, and in my personal opinion the song was a message to people that even though they don't like her, she will always have the last laugh. So in conclusion, Attention was not fit quite well to be the lead single and is a droplet to start her new Era. Landong0818 (talk) 01:56, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

And i never said that Attention's lackluster performance makes it a promotional single. Landong0818 (talk) 01:57, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

@Landong0818: None of this answers my question. You did not address the other factors I brought up, instead repeating arguments you already established. "Radio-friendly" is a completely subjective observation and as such is not a valid criterion; the song's subject material is not relevant either. Re. your last point, you explicitly did not say the claim, but you did heavily imply it: "Doja Cat never confirmed this was the lead single to Scarlet. "Paint the Town Red" was sent to radio worldwide and is doing better commercially". If you say the weaker commercial performance does not make "Attention" a promo single, you would have not mentioned that "Paint the Town Red" saw more chart success in your edit summary, which clearly shows a juxtaposition between single criteria and not single criteria. ‍ ‍ Elias 🌊 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "Will you call me?"}
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 03:05, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

@Your Power: In fact, the label RCA Records does not refer to "Attention" as a single, only a "track" while "Paint the Town Red" is an official single. Combined with the lack of radio airplay, this is clear evidence that it should be a promo single. I made the arguments at Talk:Scarlet (Doja Cat album), which I will paste under the cut:

Reasoning for promotional single status, in detail

"Attention" and "Demons" should be considered promotional singles and not official singles. RCA Records makes a clear distinction between "Paint the Town Red" as an "official single" and never refers to the other two as such, only calling them tracks. The press release for "Paint the Town Red" states that it is the "first official single" and that Doja Cat "releases her new single and music video, 'Paint the Town Red'", repeatedly confirming the song's status as a single. Meanwhile, in the same article, it states, "Previously, Doja Cat dropped her track and video, 'Attention'", avoiding using the terminology of an official single. Likewise, the press release for "Attention" never uses the word single and only refers to it as a track: "Doja Cat releases her new track and music video 'Attention'". The press release for "Demons" also calls it a "track" while in the same article again calling "Paint the Town Red" an "official single", making a clear distinction. On Instagram Live, Doja Cat made it clear that "Attention" was not meant to be a single replayed on the radio, stating it is "not really a song, [but] more of, like, a piece — it's a message" which is "not really supposed to be replayed", but rather something that "would be a nice way to start off the whole rollout". Only "Paint the Town Red" was sent to radio airplay, while "Attention" and "Demons" were not. As established in the case of Taylor Swift's "All Too Well (Taylor's Version)" and Doja Cat's own song "Need to Know", even if a song is released with a music video and is called a single by third-party news outlets, it can only be considered a promotional single if it is not sent to radio by the label.

Flabshoe1 (talk) 14:54, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

References