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Talk:Ave Maria (Beyoncé song)/GA1

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GA Review

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Reviewer: Wikipedian Penguin (talk · contribs) 01:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, My love is love and Jivesh. I will be taking on this review. Great work you two. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 01:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Guys, please don't use the rather pretty but annoying {{done}} and {{not done}} templates. They are so hard to read through with the graphic and the bolding. Plain text please.

DAB links and linkrot
  • Looks good.
Spotcheck
  • FN 2 does not support cited text.
  • Most of the blockquote can be paraphrased. It discusses their marriage as an inspiration of the writing.
  • "it does riff on the classic aria, it's not an actual cover" - the word "it" is not in the source provided.
  • FN 7 does not say that the sample is from a rendition by Franz Schubert in particular. It could have been someone else.
  • " Knowles' voice shows restraint as she sings in a lower register which gives her more vocal power" - close paraphrasing from FN 8
  • " Her vocal range in the song spans from the music note of B♯3 E♯5." - pardon me, I don't know much about music, but the source does not say it is B sharp and E sharp.
  • "weaves 'a vivid tale' of a desperate woman." - This entire thing is a quotation, not just the "a vivid tale".
  • "vocally impeccable, but it reads more like recital fodder rather than a true confessional" - WP:LQ needs to be applied here, per source.
  • "Matos Michaelangelo of The A.V. Club wrote that 'Beyoncé has a real flair for grandeur' and the 'big, wide melodies' of 'Halo" and 'Ave Maria' give her enough to work with that" - close paraphrasing from FN 12.
  • FN 16 does not look like MSN Music to me.
  • "Yes, Beyonce draws on the classic composition for this sweeping number -- and paraphrases Lennon's line about life being what happens while you're making plans. Two bad ideas." - the last part can be easily paraphrased. And does the "Yes" really have to be part of the quotation?
    • Why don't you suggest something then? This is a GAN not FAC. When you review an article for GA, you are are also supposed to suggest something. That's what I have always done and what the ones who review my GANs have done. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:03, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Even though that is not my job, try this: "...wrote that Knowles 'draws on the classic composition for this sweeping number' and echos a similar line to John Lennon's quote: 'Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.'." —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 16:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Look at these notes for now. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:20, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Prose comments
Lead
  • "'Ave Maria' is a song by American R&B recording artist Beyoncé Knowles, taken from her third studio album I Am... Sasha Fierce (2008)."
  • "The song was written by Knowles, Amanda Ghost, Ian Dench, Makeba Riddick, Mikkel Storleer Eriksen and Tor Erik Hermansen while production was handled by Knowles and Stargate." - I feel as though this sentence could be laid out better. I would try "Amanda Ghost, Ian Dench and Makeba Riddick wrote the song in collaboration with its producers Knowles and production duo Stargate. There is no need to name the team members here.
  • "As stated by Ghost, 'Ave Maria' was inspired by Knowles' and her own respective marriages." - Unclear sentence. Did you mean "As stated by Ghost, "Ave Maria" was inspired by Knowles' and the two artists' marriages"?
  • "Lyrically, "Ave Maria" speaks about being surrounded by friends but still feeling alone." - "It" will do in place of "Ave Maria".
  • "Critical reception towards the song was mixed to positive." - "to positive" is not needed. If it's mixed, it's mixed.
  • "simply a pretty normal take" - Why the "pretty" and do you mean "merely a normal take on the original"?
  • "The song was part Knowles' set list during her I Am... Tour (2009-10)" - missing word?
  • "She additionally performed the song during the 2009 BET Awards."
Writing and inspiration
  • "Ave Maria" was written by Knowles, Amanda Ghost, Ian Dench, Makeba Riddick, Mikkel Storleer Eriksen and Tor Erik Hermansen while production was handled by Knowles and Stargate." - Hmm... how about : ""Mikkel Storleer Eriksen and Tor Erik Hermansen, together under the stage name Stargate, wrote and produced the song with additional writing by Amanda Ghost, Ian Dench and Makeba Riddick." This way, we know who Stargate is.
  • "The song was written in Bangladesh, Patchwerk and Silent Sound Studios in Atlanta, Georgia in 2008." - I don't think you are trying to say it was written in Bangladesh?
  • She stated that the song was one of the most personal on the entire record." - "entire record" -> "album".
Composition
  • 'Ave Maria' is a 3 minutes and 42 seconds long ballad." ungrammatical. Try: "'Ave Maria' is a ballad that runs for 3 minutes and 42 seconds."
  • I see the second sentence say "Ave Maria: as well. "It" should suffice. The third should replace "Ave Maria" with "The song".
  • "Throughout the song, Knowles' voice shows physical control as she sings in a lower register, which allows her to vocalize in a powerful manner." - Can this get some explanation? I'm not really sure a voice shows physical control. It also seems kinda redundant so I suggest cutting "shows physical control as she". The "which allows her to vocalize in a powerful manner" part sounds a bit POVish and awkward.
  • This view was shared by Joey Guerra of the Houston Chronicle who wrote that the song weaves "a vivid tale of a desperate woman". Comma after "Chronicle".
  • Shared by Joey Guerra and who? The author of the Wikipedia article or another journalist?
Critical reception
  • I'd begin the section with an inviting opening sentence that describes how reception was overall.
  • Positive reviews seem to be mixed in with the negative ones. How about one paragraph for positive and another for negative?
  • Organized? Are you trying to say I write in a disorganized way? It is good as it is. Organisation is not the only thing that counts. How will it feel to see one giant paragraph for positive reviews and a small one for negative reviews? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:41, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • If I were trying to say that, I would, straightforwardly. Isn't Wikipedia supposed to give the best experience to readers? The paragraphs wouldn't be as different in size as to look "awful". —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Watch for typos: "wrote wrote that Knowles".
  • I see that you frequently use the verb "wrote". Even though you already have some, I'd like to see more variety. You don't seem to use the word "said" nor "suggested", whch are perfectly ok. Just be creative.
  • "come[s] off as delicate as her [Knowles'] emotions." - not needed. The bracketed "Knowles" replaces the word "her".
  • "Spence D. of IGN Music praised "Ave Maria" saying that it shows Knowles in" - Comma after "Maria".
  • "critic Robert Christgau wrote" - Isn't it obvious that he's a critic seeing how this is a reception section? Be a bit more specific. The Wikipedia article claims he's an American essayist and journalist.
Live performances
  • Changes were to insignificant to list here so I did them myself: [2] [3] [4]
Media
  • Samples should be used for the music, not the lyrical content. The caption should focus more on the music and Knowles' voice. Some details you could add: ("voice shows restraint" , "with an operatic soprano")
I will see what I can do. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:32, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Citation formatting
  • FN 1: Why is there "Liner Notes" in brackets?
  • FN 6: Consensus at WP:RSN lead to the decision that we do not provide URLs for Musicnotes.com refs. The authors of the ref are the writers of the song (real names). Ex: |first1=Beyoncé|last1=Knowles|first2=Amanda|last2=Ghost...
  • FN 23: Use single quotes for "I Am..." instead of double quotes.
  • FN 34: Remove "Amazon Inc".
Manual of style


All done except the music sample. I don't know what to write more. My sincere apologies for my occasional rude attitude (I have inherited it from my parents who are fighting most of the time). Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not gonna lie, I was losing patience. But I understand your personal situation and I feel confident in listing this article as a GA. Congrats to you and My love is love. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 15:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was also loosing patience but not because of you but because of my parents. Penguin, I assure you that I am not a bad person but my real life is not very pleasant. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]