Talk:Banu Tamim

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Untitled[edit]

The Tamimi clan is one of the largest clans in Hebron and Nablus (Palestine). The Prophet (Peace Be Upon him) gave Hebron (Al-Khaleel) area and its surroundings to Tamim Addarai as a trust. A copy of that trust can be found in a book written by Dr. Abdulrahman Tamimi of Jordan University of Science and Technology, Irbid-Jordan. The title of the book is " A3lam Al Al-khateeb Al-Addari Al-Tamimi (2000).

It seemed that the author has confused between banu tamim and banu taim, the latter is a clan of Quraish and Abu Baker the first caliph is one of them, Banu tamim is a separate tribe with no relation to Abu Baker or Quarish itself, it seems that i can't modify the page without being a registered user.

Good job, i thought there was something fishy in the article! --Striver 23:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Now, somobody needs to clear the mess --Striver 23:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


There are two mistakes I wanted to point out, the Tamimi clan in Palestine descends from Tamim Al-Dari and is therefore not related to the Banu Tamim discussed in this article. Another mistake is the saying in the beginning of the article "Had it not been for the coming of Islam, the Tamīm tribe would have consumed the Arabs." The tribe should be Taghlib, not Tamim. (original in arabic: "lawlal islamu la akalat taghlib-un-il 'arab" I added the hyphens to make the tribe's name clear) 195.69.209.1 19:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)Amr195.69.209.1 19:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually there is another version of this quote relating to Tamim as well as Taghlib. This is a common phenomenon. Slacker 04:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the part in the introductory, about people “still” claim descendent from the Tamimi tribe is not right, this typical attempted by certain Arab countries to a tribe, to which many countries carry members from it. Tamim is large tribe and many counties are home to many of its members, and one comment here is right, there is possibility that the Tamimi in Palestine, Iraq, Yemen and North Africa (Algeria mainly) are also included.

Banu Tammim has nothing to do with Bani Taym —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.0.245 (talk) 19:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Al Said - the current ruling dynasty of the Sultanate of Oman[edit]

mmmmm, they don't belong to Banu Tamim but to Al azed!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mewoone (talkcontribs) 13:25, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Allies with Persia[edit]

Who says they were allies with the Sassanid empire? The Tamim clan helped bring down the Persian empire — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.40.141 (talk) 23:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Tamim in India[edit]

Please explain how Tamim are present in India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.219.60.37 (talk) 12:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Spurious edits[edit]

A number of new editors have repeatedly tried adding unsourced / unreliable information into this article over the last month or so. These editors are @Yamjisaka:, @Aprafap:, @Monument2virtue:, @OxfordLlaw: in addition to a number of IP addresses.

The problem with these edits is that the claims are either not substantiated from a source as in the entire section Lineage and Branches or are referenced from sources that clearly fail WP:RS such as Islamic Web Community. Additionally, the editors also remove well sourced material from texts such as The Politics of Truth Management in Saudi Arabia published by Routledge which fulfills the criterion of WP:RS as does another source from Oxford University Press. I urge the above editors to explain there reasoning here on the talk page before making such contentious edits. MontyKind (talk) 16:10, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

@Montykind: has been a victim himself of posting speculated material based on not well sourced or biased material such as the books he cites. Nor do the books he cites offer a page that proves mentions. I urge him to look for more reliable information online before accusing others of posting something that isn't "reliable or sourced". He has removed Sahih Bukhari hadith in favour of negative hadith is not accepted by most muslims or are unpopular to begin with.

Lineage has been referenced. If you edits were in good faith you wouldn't have deleted edits that were referenced as well as you have referenced your material.

Arabic material is considered a source, as many books on tribe in Arabia have not been translated into english. Removing arabic sources is ill informed.

@Monument2virtue: - You haven't answered any of the points that I made so I will break it down for you in the hope that you will answer this time. I'll start with the following three points and then we can move onto the others:
  • Why did you remove the line, "Before the advent of Wahhabism there was very little history of Islamic education amongst Banu Tamim." when it is sourced from the book The Politics of Truth Management in Saudi Arabia published by Routledge. This book fulfills the conditions of WP:RS. If it does not then you need to explain why.
  • Why did you remove the line, "The companion and poet Hassan ibn Thabit composed a poem against Banu Tamim in the presence of the Prophet ﷺ . Hassan's ode "completely humiliated" Banu Tamim by describing the low status of their tribe." which is referenced from Alfred Guillaume and published by Oxford University Press. Again this is perfectly fine according to WP:RS unless you have evidence otherwise.
  • Why did you add the section "Lineage and Branches" when it has been unsourced since 2014? You sneakily added a reference to this section in your last edit to make it look as though the section is sourced from this book. However, the source in question makes no mention of the lineage that is alleged in the article. Further, the book is not an academic text but an apologetic work written over 130 years ago in an attempt to appease non-Muslims. It therefore fails WP:RS.


@Montyking

1. This is speculative opinionated assertion within a book by Shahi holding a general shia/persian lean narrative on Banu Tamim being an especially uneducated sedentary tribe before "wahhabism", which cannot be accepted as solid truth like the way you presented it, when Banu Tamim has peoples raniging from poets, religious scholars to scientists hailing from Banu Tamim, ones who converted to Islam during the early Islamic age as stated, if it were more specific towards Al-Ash Sheikhs branch of banu tamim than it would be acceptable. That line is controversial because "islamic education" is a loose term as most Nejdis were educated in Islam in their own branches, but Muhammed Ibn AbdulWahab was the one who asserted that they werent educated in the "true islam" which was his Salafi branch. This cannot be accepted as some sort of universal truth amongst Banu Tamim. This is why the book you cited is a controversial source as it twists Abdulwahhabs words as a general, rather than an opinionated towards his clansmen.

2. Include this, it's fine, I may have glossed over it when editing, but sources must be named and hadith styles, for example if its shia or sunni hadiths, it must be stated. We can have a section dedicated to both views on Banu Tamim.

3. This is where you are heavily mistaken. The source is written by a scholar... Unless you want to cherry pick your sources while ignoring others. Lineage is passed down on oral tradition, and its mentioned in that book cited that this is the oral tradition of the lineage Banu Tamim claims. You can't claim something ot be "academic" or "apologetic" on a whim.

You have been warned yourself and I would be more than delighted that an admin would take a look at these messages and your edits on the page. Please bring this to the admins attention.

You haven't provided any policy based reasons to justify your response. Please read WP:RS an WP:NPOV. Without gaining a grasp of these policies it becomes almost impossible to discuss here.
The first 2 sources I presented fulfill the conditions of WP:RS (e.g. Oxford University Press is about as reliable as you can get) and so are acceptable to use. The source you have provided, firstly doesn't mention what your claim it does and secondly is an apologetic work written over 130 years ago and produced by an obscure publishing house in an attempt to appease non-Muslims. It therefore fails WP:RS.
I am also urging you to read WP:BRD so that we can agree first on the talk page before making wholesale changes to the article. This will prevent edit warring for which you have already been warned by an admin. MontyKind (talk) 16:51, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Merged with Tamimi[edit]

JahlilMA (talk) 06:54, 16 July 2017 (UTC)