Talk:Battle of Oranik (1456)

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Date?

Our primary sources say that the battle occurred sometime in 1453, but Harry Hodgkinson says it happened the spring after the siege of Berat(which he gives as happening in July 1455). If anyone is willing to do some research on it, it would be greatly appreciated. --Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 04:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What are the primary sources: Gennaro Francione? Where do you get this book anyways? Or are you referring to Becikemi & Barleti, on whose data is based Noli's book? --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 00:38, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some of Skanderbeg battles have taken place in same areas, eg. Pollog valley, this is somewhat confusing because another battle in Oranik is reported in 1447 or 1448. Aigest (talk) 07:36, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Franz Babinger in Mehmed the Conqueror and His Time, page 152, says that this battle happened in March 1456.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:17, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oranik vs Oronik

The place of the battle is called Oranik not Oronik. Needs change Aigest (talk) 13:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to the History of the Albanian People version of 2002 it's Oranik, indeed. Publications of the 1980s gave Oronik. --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 22:11, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even Noli says Oranik. We should change it Aigest (talk) 22:30, 17 June 2010 (UTC) Done. Moved the page to Oranik --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 23:34, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Unresolved

"... Skanderbeg to stand in doubt. Skanderbeg began to move towards Moisi. As he did so, Moisi turned about and sped back..."

Author of this article obviously used sources which can not be considered as reliable.

I think that Gennaro Francione (a writer also worked as an actor and director, theater, essayist and painter who is from the artistic point of view influenced by Hacker Art, art, Gothic Revival and the so-called cyber-culture) and Harry Hodgkinson (a British writer, journalist, naval intelligence officer and expert on the Balkans who was appointed from 1985 to be a Chairman of the Anglo-Albanian Association and during his career supported the Albanian cause and took up strong anti-Serb and anti-Bulgarian positions) can not be reliable sources for this article.

Taking in consideration that this was a battle that happened 550 years ago, I doubt that there are sources which could support all details of this battle that are presented in the article.

I propose serious reconstructure of the article and using reliable sources according to the policy of wp. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:25, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that League of Lezhe did not exist in time of this battle. Even Harry Hodgkinson admits that League broke up before this battle was fought, with some of its members even joining Skanderbeg's enemies (The League broke up and some of its members made their terms with the victor).--Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:49, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Where is Oranik?

Athanase Gegaj says that: Oranik, dans la Dibra supérieure. which is upper Debar or Macedonia. If I am not wrong the location of Oranik should be changed to Macedonia.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:51, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are many other sources which confirm that Oronik/Oranik is actually Debar:

Aleksandar Stojanovski (1989). Makedonija vo turskoto srednovekovie: (od krajot na XIV-početokot na XVIII v.). Kultura. p. 311. Веројатно затоа што не сака да верува дека Ороник е денешниот Дебар?
Aleksandar Stojanovski (1988). Istorija na makedonskiot narod. Makedonska kniga. p. 89. А кога, на 19 мај 1456 година кај Ороник (Дебар), востаниците командувани лично од Скендербег одново се судриле со петнаесетилјадна осман- лиска војска на чело со предавникот Мојсо Големи, послед- ниов претрпел големи
Glasnik na Institutot za nacionalna istorija. Institut. 1977. p. 89. Оровних (Раховник) во XV и XVI век го носела населбата од која израснал градот Дебар
Recueil de Vardar. Akademija. 2008. p. 63. У претурско време raje било посебног града Kojn се звао Дебар, пише Ястребов, а Дебром су под Турцима назвали село Koje се пре тога звало Оровник, Ороник или Охорник и Koje се тада развило у варош.
Dušan Nedeljković (1974). Simpozijum o metodologiji etnoloških nauka: 18-20 decembra 1972. Srpska Akademija Nauka i Umetnosti. p. 68. Тако ]е убикаци^а Барлетщевог Ороника у пределу Гор- иьи Дебар14), и поред врло децидне убикаци)'е ко]у ]е давало преданье, било искомпликовано чивьеницом да ]е Оронох негде после XVIII века добио ново име Дебар

--Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:52, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]