Talk:Battle of Palkhed

This was a battle not just mere treaty using peace talks

BajiRao actually engaged in Military Operations against Nizam even with bare minimum casualties on both sides, this was still a battle as strategy was used between both parties. Nizam was almost surrounded and was forced to sign the treaty, it wasn't just handed. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 01:18, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

No. There wasn't a battle at Palkhed. Please provide sources Ajayraj890 (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

@DebDeb, this article was once moved to draftspace finding out the misleading context. Here, it is again created. @Sitush, could you please check the authenticity of the battle? There was no battle at Palkhed between the Nizam and Peshwa. I have done a deep research and realised that there was just a peace treaty. This article have already misled many people and I hope you take an action. Ajayraj890 (talk) 03:32, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Here are the sources for this Military Campaign which led to the Battle, I'll shortly add them too and further expand the reference/source list:

1. The Military history of India by Jadunath Sarkar.

2. The history of Maharattas by James Grant Duff

3. The Maratha Military Genius: Battle of Palkhed by Abhinav Agarwal (Indologist/Historian) Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 03:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I have read all these books and it never said Bajirao defeated the Nizam. Moreover, these kind of sources cannot be used in wikipedia according to WP:RAJ. Ajayraj890 (talk) 04:05, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I have read many books myself including these ones and it clearly mentions that Nizam of Hyderabad and Bajirao had persuasions with each other with BajiRao holding the advantage and cutting away their supplies, forcing them to sign the treaty if not so then Marathas under BajiRao would have completely annexed Deccan which is why they used to pay tributaries to Sahu. A startegic millitary win. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 04:10, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

No. This article says, Bajirao defeated Nizam. Where does the sources say that? And Bajirao annexed the whole deccan region? From where did you learn this? Ajayraj890 (talk) 04:14, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I didn't say BajiRao annexed the whole region. Read before you make a comment. The Nizam was forced to pay taxes that alone is proof of this military persuasions. Don't make false claims and change articles related to BajiRao and his battles. You can still improve your separate treaty page which is still debatable because it wasn't some peace talk which started that treaty in the first place. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 04:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Montgomery, Bernard Law. A Concise History of Warfare, Great Britain: William Collins Sons, 1968, Page No. 132 - You can even read about these Military Campaigns here. He also studied BajiRao deeply and was great Field Marshal during WW2. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 04:27, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

No one denied the Military campaigns of Bajirao, Iwaz Khan and the Nizam. There was military conflicts and skirmishes in Ahmadabad, Pune and other regions during the campaigns. But the claim Bajirao defeated Nizam in battle at Palkhed is a false claim. Ajayraj890 (talk) 04:29, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I am leaving this to experts who can deeply research about this topic. @Sitush, this article was removed once, but this user copy pasted the source code creating this again. Please check the authenticity of this article. Ajayraj890 (talk) 04:33, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes this article was falsely removed and redirected by manipulating facts. Do check as it's now restored and is its own page like it used to be. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 04:35, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

@Thewikiuser1999 I can see no reliable support for a battle having taken place, as opposed to a meeting of opponents to negotiate an end to previous conflicts. - Sitush (talk) 21:51, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I tell a lie: the Cambridge History volume does lend some credence to it and is reliable. Sarkar, Duff etc are not. - Sitush (talk) 21:59, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

What Cambridge History says is: The Nizam picked up an ally in Trimbukrao Dabhade, who wanted none of Bajirao’s attempts to control Gujarat. Bajirao’s forces finally trapped the Nizam at Palkhed (twenty miles west of Aurangabad) in the dry hills near the Godavari river, cut off supplies, and forced the Nizam to terms on 6 March 1728. Still it doesn't says Bajirao defeated Nizam at Palkhed. It says forced to terms and they signed a treaty. The treaty has a seperate article which explains about the campaigns which led to the treaty. Did you find anywhere that Bajirao defeated the Nizam at a battle? Indeed the Marathas were successful in collecting Chauth(tax). The earlier version even said that the Nizam was surrendered. Please check Treaty of Mungi-Shevgaon and its earlier revisions. This article is a copied version of that. Ajayraj890 (talk) 04:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ajayraj890 I was assuming "trapped" implied fighting but can see what you mean. I thought I also saw the "battle" word but perhaps not. Will look again. - Sitush (talk) 17:54, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Please. This article was once moved to draftspace and returned to mainspace as Treaty of Mungi-Shevgaon. I found it nowhere that there was a military conflict at in 1728 in which the Marathas defeated the Nizam. Infact, the title 'Battle of Palkhed' itself is misleading and the title is being used by others since the creation of the older version of this article in 2005. Ajayraj890 (talk) 18:02, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ajayraj890 See page 118. - Sitush (talk) 18:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

I can see using 'Battle of Palkhed (1728)' in page no 118. But do that source say that there was a military conflict at Palkhed inwhich the Marathas defeated the Nizam? And the Nizam was surrendered? Ajayraj890 (talk) 18:13, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ajayraj890 It speaks of the Mughals, the Marathas, the Peshwa & Holkar. Even if these don't fit your criteria, which I suspect may be semantics, the source does support that there was a battle of Palkhed, which is the title of this article. And with that I am done here. - Sitush (talk) 18:23, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@SitushSitush, The Deccan Subah became independent after 1724. I don't understand the usage of terms such as 'Mughal supplies'. And the main problem is with the result of the battle (as if happened). How is that a Maratha victory while the source itself fails to mentions the conflict at Palkhed between the Nizam and Peshwa? It says Nizam got surrendered and signed the treaty. I am leaving this session too. Ajayraj890 (talk) 18:28, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ajayraj890 I know very little about this bit of history & little before 1750 interests me regardless of which country it happened in. You or someone else needs to read the entire chapter of that book, at least. - Sitush (talk) 18:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes. I am leaving this for someone else because I am more concentrated on early Mughals and Delhi Sulatantes. Ajayraj890 (talk) 03:23, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Why do you discredit Indian Historical Sources? Have they not done research before they posted their own history? Just because one source is from outside doesn't automatically make it make credible. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 16:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

more* Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 16:54, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Nobody said Indian sources are unavailable. According to WP:RAJ, those sources cannot be used. Ajayraj890 (talk) 17:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

@SitushSitush, can we use "Proceedings of the Indian History Congress" for citing sources? Ajayraj890 (talk) 17:45, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ajayraj890 Not a great idea to use that source. Two reasons: it has quite often been politicised & the papers presented at the Proceedings are intended for discussion at those gatherings - they aren't actually peer-reviewed & can be drafts for further research, books etc. - Sitush (talk) 17:51, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Conquering

Who conquered the P alkh.ed 45.114.193.173 (talk) 15:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)