Talk:Battle of Vaksince

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Battle of Vaksince article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

North Macedonia

	North Macedonia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject North Macedonia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of North Macedonia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.North MacedoniaWikipedia:WikiProject North MacedoniaTemplate:WikiProject North MacedoniaNorth Macedonia articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Balkan / European / Post-Cold War Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion not met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Balkan military history task force (c. 500–present)
	European military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

duplicate info?[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaksince_offensive and https://en.wikipedia.org/?curid=72183759, despite the different date, seem to be about hte same event Lauragioia66 (talk) 10:12, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rename "Operation Vaksince" to "Battle of Vaksince"[edit]

In my opinion we should change the name to Battle of Vaksice, since Operation Vaksince only covers a small Part of the actual Battle and doesn't include everything that happened before 24 May 2001 and after 26 May 2001. Me and Drenicak32 already added Sources that the NLA was able to recapture the village on 6 June. Karadakli230 (talk) 18:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Karadakli 230 I have to agree with you on this beacuse the Operation covers a small Part of the actual Battle. It is better to change it to Battle of Vaksince Albanian 7 (talk) 18:20, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article is about the military Operation Vaksince not about the battle, articles created about the battle of Vaksince were MERGED several days ago with the main page after a consensus was reached by all editors, you cannot rename, retime and change the result of military operations and invent new battles.

GoofyGoofyson (talk) 13:30, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have to disagree on that, this article was never about the battle, it was about the entire military operation, not just the village. I also have to point out two things:

1. The move seems like a violation of WP:RMCM - you had no clear consensus to move the page.

2. The horrid spelling and grammatical errors present in the newly added portion of the article.

Kluche (talk) 19:12, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Pages merged were on 3 May, The info we added proofs that the NLA regained territory shortly after 26 May and finally recaptured the village from the Macedonian Army on 6 June. The main fighting in Vaksince started on 3 May and ended on 6 June, so I see no reason in only letting a small Part of the Battle (the Macedonian Counter-Offensive from 24-26 May) exist as a Page, when we can put all the info into one Page. Karadakli230 (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The result of the battle[edit]

Fadil nimani was the commander of the NLA bridge that attacked vaksince in that battle he was killed by Macedonian soldiers the result was clearly a Macedonian victory Walter white502930291 (talk) 11:25, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide sources describing it as a Macedonian victory. Alltan (talk) 11:32, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

sir it's only logical becouse the leader of the attack was killed the army can't function without a leader Walter white502930291 (talk) 12:31, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:OR. You have got to have a source for your claim. Sorry. Alltan (talk) 12:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I found multiple sources but Wikipedia won't let me upload them for some reson Walter white502930291 (talk) 06:37, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stop edit warring and use the talk page to state your case. Alltan (talk) 21:14, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

the sources you guys use don't say anything about the results or the articles where made 10 years after the war my source was written by a neutral website and it was made on 2001 Walter white502930291 (talk) 21:18, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

your source is regarded as WP:PRIMARY. Alltan (talk) 21:20, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Finally https://reliefweb.int/organization/iwpr Walter white502930291 (talk) 06:52, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a specific report within this link that discusses this topic? --Local hero ^talk 14:57, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

how is killing a commander marking a victory in battle? the macedonian forces did capture vaksince for a short period of time, but the NLA retook parts of the village in less then 3 days, the NLA also officially claimed that it had recaptured the entire village by 6 June, a claim which had been approved by the then Lipkovo Mayor. Macedonian forces also shelled the village on 6 June, which proves that they weren't in control of the village. GermanManFromFrankfurt (talk) 19:25, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1355824.stm

Says that the Macedonian army has captured vaksince Walter white502930291 (talk) 21:01, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it does. I believe this is reflected in the "Second Macedonian Offensive" section. --Local hero ^talk 02:09, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox result[edit]

@Based.shqiptar.frompirok. Hello. What you list as information in the infobox is already covered in the body of the article, including the recapture of the village. Per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, infoboxes shouldn't contain unnecessary information and should preferably contain less information where possible. Considering that the result of the battle is also clear, such a list is unnecessary. StephenMacky1 (talk) 15:40, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edits by "Based guyy"[edit]

I think it is clear to see what this editor, who, by the way, has already been warned with a several-month ban due to his disruptive edits, is trying to do here. I will list some of the user's edits, and I request some admin to take care of this matter afterward.

Edit from 1 December 2023, 22:10:

The user removes "50 militants" and explains the edit with the following quote: "The source doesn't say that there were 50 militants it says that the government deployed 50 veachles."

Now lets see what the source is actually saying:

"Die Regierung erklärte, sie habe eine Gruppe von 50 Freischärlern „zerschlagen“, wobei es Tote und Verletzte gegeben habe." from this source (https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/mazedonien-offensive-gegen-rebellen-verschaerft-krise-120333.html) "Based guyy" translates "Freischärler" with "vehicle". Let's see what "Freischärler" actually means, according to Duden, "Freischärler", means: "Member of a guerrilla group", and has the following synonyms: "Guerrilla", "partisan" and "resistance fighter". (https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Freischaerler)

Edit from 5 December 2023, 17:41:

The editor changes "2 Mi-24 Attack helicopters" to "Unknown number of Attack helicopter". The user did not dare to replace the source with a more reliable one; instead, they let the other source remain in its place. The source that proves there were, in fact, two Mi-24 attack helicopters is as follows:

"At Vaksince, puffs of smoke from artillery shells rose from the town’s center and heavy machine-gun fire punctuated the boom of the cannons as troops prepared to move in. The village also was raked by rocket fire from two helicopter gunships." from this article (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-may-26-mn-2763-story.html)

Edit from 20 December 2023, 23:18:

The editor adds two non-existing pages, "Battle of Radnička Kolonija" and "Battle of Tabanovce (2001)" to the "See also" heading. These are fictional battles for which there is no actual proof that they ever occurred. In fact, the NLA was never in control of those villages, and there is no evidence that the NLA attempted to capture them.

Edit from 23 February 2024, 15:35:

The user removes the information about the two soldiers killed on the NLA side, along with the source, and changes it with a claim of 16 casualties without a valid source. The provided source, labeled "Дневник," does not lead to any information at all. Even if this user provided an actual source that led to some information, it would likely be from the opposing side of the NLA. Observing other sides of battles of the Yugoslav wars, information from the opposing side on the casualties of the other side is rarely used, due to propaganda and misinformation.

GermanManFromFrankfurt (talk) 22:56, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]