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Kings of Bernicia
In the Kings of Bernicia section, the kings on the left, their order and dates of rule, are almost completely contradictory to the photo of a list of kings of Bernicia from a 19th century book on the right.
Which is the correct list? What is the source for the dates of rule on the left?
I landed on this page as a result a redirect from Boernicians but this word, or even 'Boernicia', doesn't appear anywhere. Can anyone explain the alternate spelling and confirm that the article is correctly redirected? --Douglas (talk) 19:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Well, Boernicia/Boernician/Boernicians are very rare words. Sufficiently rare to seem like a probable typo for Bernicia/Bernician/Bernicians. Boernicia/&c find only one entry on Google books/scholar. Redirecting it here seemed like a reasonable alternative to deleting it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:38, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I too, am interested in the history, as I am a Boernician, with little known other than they appear and were A border Race between Scotland, England and Wales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1003:B116:11D7:AD62:A129:169C:DF5A (talk) 05:56, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
I think there are 4 obscure kings like, Inse son of Ida (579), who are faked up hoax kings.
Does anyone have any information on the Brythonic Bernicia, as suggested in the present article without citation? Certainly the claim that it is derived from a Celtic 'land of mountain passes' is refuted by the topography of the region. Perhaps the section should be removed if there is no confirmation. Opinions? Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 01:36, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Would you like to expand on your comment that the topography 'certainly' refutes this etymology? Although the terrain is not 'alpine' or 'mountainous', large parts of it are hilly (Cheviots, Lammermuirs). The article does stress that the eminent Jackson's proposed etymology was 'tentative'. Ceartas 01:38, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- I think you've made the point quite nicely: " ... the terrain is not 'alpine' or 'mountainous' ...", and "large parts of it are hilly". The suggested etymology of "Land of the Mountain Passes" doesn't fit, "Land of the Gaps" is a stretch. My comment reflects a bit of exasperation with all of the speculative etymologies that get tossed around, even one that is cited to Jackson (and I agree that he is both eminent and worthwhile reading). Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 02:51, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- I do agree that 'mountain passes' seems too 'spectacular' for the terrain. Maybe the term 'mountain' is the problem? Even today, Welsh 'hills' are often referred to as 'mountains'! To be fair to the author, there are three caveats re. this etymology: that it is simply 'the most widely cited'; that it is 'tentative'; and that 'no etymology has produced a consensus'. I think there is a place for quoting 'authorities' and sources; if what they say is speculative, this should be made clear to the reader, as is the case here. Regards, Ceartas 12:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
I think the suggestion that Brynaich (and variants) represents a "version" of Bernicia adopted into Welsh is curious. From what language would Bernicia have come if not British/Welsh? The British version is almost certainly the original one and to suggest that the Welsh somehow forgot what they used to call it and borrowed a Latinised version of their old name without recognising it is odd. I suggest this is reworded to make it less absurd. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 13:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
- I have tried to make that less absurd, but (frankly) the section needs better citations, which I do not have to hand. Moonraker2 (talk) 13:47, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
- I don't know who started this nonsense about mountain passes, but the Boernicians were originally from a small mountain area at the top of Norway , They would later be described as the Scots & Vikings that settled into the Craggy hills of what is southern Scotland. There they intermixed with Anglo-Saxons and others.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 04:39, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
So The Boernicians are indeed migrating from flooding doggerlands into higher grounds and the language is old norse. That is all that is known at this time until further research is done of the North Sea floor but this from the point of view of the time and geography would make sense. But the peoples didnt leave behind much as they were aware of the flooding lands. They simply packed up and left through the mountain passages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by D Gordon Atkinson (talk • contribs) 02:12, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Cumbric in Elmet
Elmet is further South than Cumberland. Do we know that what was spoken in Elmet in the 7th Century was Cumbric rather than Welsh, or that at this time it was possible to differentiate Welsh and Cumbric as seperate languages? 126.96.36.199 (talk) 00:26, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
I am so frustrated. Please forgive me it this sounds angry or strident. I am just really frustrated.
I want to know about the history of the island of Great Britian from 450 a.d. to 1066 a.d. Almost all of the articles covering this in Wikipedia lack maps. It is impossible to follow the history without maps to guide the reader. I realize that a kingdom with a three hundred year lifespan will change its borders significantly. That is why they invented animated gifs.
This article goes beyond simply lacking a map, because indeed it does have a map, but it is labeled in a non-English language. This is the English Wikipedia. There are Wikipedias written in forty-three languages listed in a box on the left side of this page. Move the map to one of them.
I am a clever person and I could not find Bernicia labeled on this map.
Could someone who loves this period of English history please make some nice maps, post them to Wikipedia, and put them into the public domain?
The phrase "when the Angles finally conquered the whole region ... around 604 is likely" is a mite strong, given that from 1067 to 1072 Earl Gospatric ruled not only Bernicia but all of Northumbria from Bambergh, and he was as much a Cumbrian as he was an Angle, a Dane or a Scot.
As an aside, the "Old North", including its language, was very much alive and kicking even after the Norman King William II took over Cumbria in 1092. It took many further centuries for the English Crown to secure control of the North. Zoetropo (talk) 00:39, 14 July 2014 (UTC)