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Talk:Better Call Saul season 1/GA1

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GA Review

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Reviewer: Bilorv (talk · contribs) 17:00, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Production

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  • "By July 2013, the series had yet to be greenlit." – An odd start to the section. Breaking Bad wasn't even finished by that point, right? Can we have a summary of what Breaking Bad was about or when it aired, and a fair amount of information from Better Call Saul#Conception. Redundancy is not a big problem as this article should be standalone.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 16:14, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Paul and Smith sentence is missing an inline citation.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Gordon Smith, who was a writer's assistant on Breaking Bad is close paraphrasing with the source that says exactly that. Rephrase (e.g. "who worked on Breaking Bad as a writer's assistant"). — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 21:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mention that Gunn played Skyler.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 13:53, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In January 2020, it was announced that Dean Norris would reprise his role in season 5 as Hank Schrader." – Not relevant to season 5.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 13:48, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gilligan expressed some concern regarding the possible disappointment from the series' turnout, in terms of audience reception, giving that Saul Goodman was a supporting character in Breaking Bad. – I can't see either of these sources saying any of these things, really. I'm much more interested in HuffPost's comment "After revealing production is almost two weeks behind schedule". These articles are taking a quote from The Hollywood Reporter, which might have some relevant information ("A couple months, but I was doing a lot of press and talking about Breaking Bad right up until we started the new show. But it's not a bad thing. What's that old expression? You can rest when you're dead? That gets closer by the minute!").
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 23:25, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • More information in this section would be good. Some questions that leap out: What were the team looking for in the casting of new characters not from Breaking Bad? (e.g. maybe they wanted the known characters to not overshadow the new ones, or Kim/Chuck were written as a foil to Jimmy etc.) How long did filming/production last, or when did it end?
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 10:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
with his character described as a "..." needs attribution in prose, as it's a direct quote seemingly of nobody. Also, mention Mando's character in the paragraph about his casting. — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This hasn't been done, and Mando's description now has the same issue. — Bilorv (talk) 18:17, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bilorv: I've added another sourced for the casting description. The Optimistic One (talk) 16:17, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The Optimistic One: that wasn't the issue. The issue is that we can't say X was described as "...". We need to say Y described X as "...". Otherwise the quote isn't meaningful or properly attributed. — Bilorv (talk) 16:30, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! I know now what the issue was.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 16:35, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cast and characters

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  • "who is looking after his brother Chuck who allegedly suffers from electromagnetic hypersensitivity" – Redundant to Chuck's description. Just "who looks after his brother Chuck" is fine.
  • "is hiding his own identity" – implies that Gene is hiding from Gene's identity. Try "and hiding from his former identity".
I've already changed this sentence on later seasons to 'his real identity'. The Optimistic One (talk) 13:58, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and later" – If this happens in season one then just "and"; if not then don't mention it.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 14:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Mike [...] 'cleaner'" needs explanation, not just a link.
Removed. The Optimistic One (talk) 14:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who allegedly suffers from electromagnetic hypersensitivity" (under Chuck) – Not clear who "alleges" this from the description. It's Chuck that alleges it. I suggest "who claims to suffer from ...".
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 14:18, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who works at HHM" – Abbreviation hasn't been introduced yet (it's first abbreviated in the "Uno" summary); either mention earlier or spell out the name in full.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 14:21, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a doctor who treats Chuck and suspects his condition is psychosomatic" – Just "a doctor who treats Chuck", latter clause is plot rather than characterisation.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 14:24, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Episodes

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  • Throughout, it's often unclear whether "in a flashback" means before the Gene storyline or before the 2002 storyline begins or what.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 17:28, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After Jimmy frees them, Lars reveals that the scam was Jimmy's idea" – Not clear that Jimmy didn't already tell Tuco this.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 17:31, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Nacho doesn't believe that story" – Not a fan of the italics for emphasis, can be reworded.
  • "for involving and disrespecting Tuco's grandmother and as a warning to keep quiet" – Can be said more concisely.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 17:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Episode 4 is over the 200 word limit. Phrases like "but they refuse and instead offer him ..." can be made more concise and passages like "Jimmy replies that Nacho was so careless that he was recognized while doing surveillance, so if anything had happened to the Kettlemans, he would have been suspected" are too much detail.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 20:55, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "realizes it's missing" – Contraction is a bit informal.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 02:11, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "until he meets an elderly woman" – I think that's the wrong connective. The elderly woman doesn't scare off the seedy clients. Maybe "He then meets ..."
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 02:11, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Current version is comma splicing so this still needs rewording. — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 00:05, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He asks, "Long way from home, aren't you?", to which one replies, "You and me both."" – Too much detail.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 02:14, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and it's unloaded" – Too informal.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 02:18, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One shoots at Mike with Mike's gun, but Mike was pretending to be drunk knowing it was unloaded. is still clunky and unclear. Maybe One shoots at Mike with Mike's gun, which he had purposefully left unloaded. and is it true that he drinks heavily earlier or does he just pretend? Mention the fake drunkenness some other place either way. — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This hasn't been addressed. — Bilorv (talk) 18:20, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "aren't satisfied" – "are unsatisfied".
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 02:18, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he's agreed to take" – "he has agreed to take"
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 02:24, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which ends after Marco dies during the last one" – Redundant, should just be "which ends after Marco dies".
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 02:25, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

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  • The "Critical reception" section is on the short side. The opening sentence says it "received critical acclaim particularly for its acting, writing, and directing with many critics calling it a worthy successor to Breaking Bad" – where is this sourced to, or what reviews does it summarise? More reviews and more detail, with quotes collected by these themes (comparisons to BB; comments about actors; comments about writing; comments about directing) are needed.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 16:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The first season of Better Call Saul exceeded expectations" – Exceeded whose expectations?
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 19:55, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In ratings, the consecutive footnotes "[43]1" are a little odd. Can we make the "1" into "[a]" instead?
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 15:13, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps just personal preference, but Accolades usually have a references column rather than including the reference in the award ceremony.

Comics

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  • "acting as a spin-off of the Breaking Bad episode that introduced Saul" has Better Call Saul (Breaking Bad) as a bit of an Easter egg link. Would be better to say the episode name (or perhaps allude to it with "of the same name").
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 15:38, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

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  • "A spin-off of Breaking Bad" – mention something about BB's genre or storyline
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 15:48, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A spin-off of Breaking Bad, a crime drama series where Saul was a supporting character. isn't grammatically correct as a standalone sentence (perhaps a comma rather than a period was intended, but this would make the sentence overly long). — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 00:22, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "excluding the opening scene in the pilot where Saul (under his "Gene Takavic" alias) works at a Omaha Cinnabon" – Too much detail for the lead, I think.
This hasn't been removed. — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 00:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who later becomes known as Saul Goodman from the fourth season onwards" – Not relevant enough, I think. Just make it clear that his character was known as Saul in BB but is known as Jimmy McGill for the first season of BCS.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 15:53, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
but in the first season is known as Jimmy McGill is redundant. The reader already knows this from The season ... features Bob Odenkirk reprising his role from Breaking Bad as James Morgan "Jimmy" McGill. — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This hasn't been fixed. — Bilorv (talk) 18:17, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 01:26, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who allegedly suffers from electromagnetic hypersensitivity" and "cleaner" – Same issue as the body.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 19:44, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mike's PI/cleaner issue hasn't been addressed here. — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 13:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the cable ratings record is worth mentioning in the third paragraph.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 20:04, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On hold for seven days, some substantial work to be done but all the main sections are in place. — Bilorv (Black Lives Matter) 17:00, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Optimistic One: thanks for the responses so far. Do you know when you'll get around to addressing the rest? — Bilorv (talk) 18:12, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bilorv: Hey! I've been busy the last few days. I'll get around to the reception bit over the next couple of days! Sorry for the wait. The Optimistic One (talk) 12:28, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bilorv: Are you satisfied with the article overall? Is it good to pass? The Optimistic One (talk) 10:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Some replies to points above and a couple of new points below. — Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments

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  • Still some contractions in plot summaries including so he'll regain his interest and both Kettleman parents don't go to jail., which need rephrasing.
This has been done. The Optimistic One (talk) 14:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • which some critics considering it award-worthy isn't grammatically correct.
 Done The Optimistic One (talk) 10:48, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • wrote it is worthy of an Emmy should be wrote that it was worthy of an Emmy.
This has been done. The Optimistic One (talk) 14:40, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

— Bilorv (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) Bilorv, the article needs to be restructured to comply with this, eg: the cast section coming before production. I hope The Optimistic One follows this. --Kailash29792 (talk) 17:48, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comment, Kailash29792. You're right that the cast section should be moved ahead of the production section. — Bilorv (talk) 18:00, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kailash29792: Thanks for pointing that out. The Optimistic One (talk) 14:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The Optimistic One: do you know if you'll be able to address the remaining comments above in the next few days? The review has been open for quite a while now. — Bilorv (talk) 16:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bilorv: Almost done. Just need to know what exactly the issue with the cleaner statement? Should there be no link for it? I think everything else is sorted. The Optimistic One (talk) 00:47, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Huh, I must have misremembered what I wrote at some point. Scratch whatever I said before. Now the issue is that the lead has more description of Mike than the body. In fact its description is too long even for the body. Hard to explain what exactly Mike does in a few words but put in the body something like: a parking lot attendant who also works as a criminal. Change the lead to the same description. Notice also that you have not addressed three of the points above. — Bilorv (talk) 18:17, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bilorv: These issues have now been resolved. The Optimistic One (talk) 23:25, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pass for GA. With the rewording I made here, I'm now happy that the article meets each GA criterion. Thanks! — Bilorv (talk) 14:07, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's great! Thank you very much! Much appreciated! The Optimistic One (talk) 15:51, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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