Talk:Blood: The Last Vampire/Archive 1

Archive 1

Saya's name

Where should we note what Saya's name means? MajinPalgen 13:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• The characters in Saya's name means small(小) and night (夜). . . It would mean a scabbard if it were written 鞘, though it's kinda bad to name your kids after parts of a weapon. In other words, it's just a homonym, though it might've been intentional.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.116.44 (talk • contribs) 16:05, July 27, 2007

Chiroptera/Chiropteran

Hello. If I'm not mistaken the bat-like creatures in the anime are referred to as "Chiropterans". Can someone back me up on that or am I wrong? Phorque 21:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

You're right, although I'm not sure of the exact spelling from memory. The term is just the family name for bats. CFLeon 23:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I have resolved this issue by adding a redirect to the wiki definition for "Chiroptera" in the "Plot" section, which is the first listing of that word in this article.--Skaizun (talk) 17:52, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Blood: The Last Vampire 2002

Can someone expand on the manga and anime for the WikiProject Anime and manga? It's not at that point to spin off a separate manga article yet (a redirect has just been created). --Geopgeop 09:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

game article

I have created an article for the game at Blood: The Last Vampire (video game). Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 13:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Chiroptera

The above article was recently decided at an AFD to merge here: [1] -- The Placebo Effect (talk) 15:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Merging game article

I think the article should be merged into this one somewhat like how the Blood+: One Night Kiss article was merged into the Blood+ article. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, the video game is a stub and I think, like the Blood+ games, it unlicensed so its unlikely it will grow much more. AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Update: Dinoguy1000 brought over the infobox data, so I went ahead and finished the merge. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I've been meaning to get back to this one to do that. :) Now to work on the clean up. I did the basic MOS fixes, but the text itself needs a lot of work. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I got a bit tired of seeing the merge banner, so I decided to do a bit towards a merge and it seemed to prod everyone else to pitch in, too. ^_^ —Dinoguy1000 17:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, we needed it. I kept wondering why we never did anything about the merge. I guess it's because we, well, didn't do anything about it, huh. ^_^ So, what's left to do with it now? --Eruhildo (talk) 09:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

My quick list from my internal to-do list:

• rewrite the lead per the MOS and WP:LEAD
• fill out the plot (just a teaser now)
• add missing voiced by to characters and maybe give David more than two sentences (LOL)
• production info (if possible)
• fill out the film section with the theatrical and DVD release info
• fill in the manga section
• add some summaries and other info to light novels, maybe a table list
• a little more in the video game section, if possible, to get to size of image ;)
• fill in any missing sources (shouldn't be much now, but there are a few sentences that need them)
• expand reception.

After that, then peer review, copyedit, and FA! *big grin* AnmaFinotera (talk) 09:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Update on To-Do

So far, a few items taken care of. Anyone want to tackle filling out the plot more? Something around 400 words in length that actually includes the main points of the film instead of being a teaser? AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

picture from the Live Action movie

I found a picture from the live action Blood: The last Vampire movie at this site: http://www.anime-ni.co.uk/?m=200710. The picture itself can be seen here: http://www.anime-ni.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/live-action-saya.jpg. I think someone should upload the picture to Wikipedia and add it to the article. I'd try to do it myself, but I have no idea how to properly do it (with all the fair use ratinales and copyright issues that wikipedia requires). But perhaps someone else with more knowledge/experience with image uploading could to it, becuase it would make a great addition to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.240.192.169 (talk) 18:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I do not think a picture would be appropriate until the film is actually released or a theatrical poster is made available, as images found online may or may not end up being in the film. AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Wether or not the scene depicted in the picture is in the movie is a bit less importaint than the fact that the picture depicts Saya the way she will look in the movie (showing the actress in character). Like a promotional image. But if you think it's a bad idea, then I guess it can wait until a poster or somthing is availible. 96.240.192.169 (talk) 21:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

This site has a promotional image (poster?) from the movie, plus a couple behind the scenes pictures. Maybe one of those would work? 72.79.209.185 (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

It is still not necessary right now. When the film is done production and is ready to go to theaters, then we will look at adding an image. AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Very well. Though personally, I still think that having any image is better than having none, but I see your point, and I guess images will have to wait for now. 72.79.209.185 (talk) 17:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Influence on videogames

It seems that Blood: TLV influenced the art styles in at least one videogame (unsurprisingly considering its reception): a picture caption on page 41 of EGM's April 2007 issue (Number 214), in an interview about the game Crackdown, reads: "Crackdown's striking visuals were in part inspired by stylish flick Blood: The Last Vampire". I'm not sure if this actually merits mention in the article, but I figured that one example of influence couldn't hurt. —Dinoguy1000 16:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...it would speak to reception I would guess, though not sure quite how to word it or if it should be mentioned if its the only instance. AnmaFinotera (talk) 16:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't sure where or how to mention it in the article either, but I rather doubt that it's the only instance of influence... it just happens to be the only one I've seen documented. —Dinoguy1000 18:19, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep...something to look into for sure. AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:36, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I say just add it into the Reception section something like the same way you mentioned it here (like "According to Electronic Gaming Monthly, Blood: The Last Vampire influenced the art style of the game Crackdown...<ref>"). I don't remember how to cite magazines or I'd give it try myself, but I'm a little short on time right now. --Eruhildo (talk) 21:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty, I'll add it, but I need to know the title and author of the piece in the magazine, and the volume number for that issue. AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

...Crap. I'll have to get the magazine from home to get you that information... —Dinoguy1000 16:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

No prob, just post it when you can. I've added it with a partial cite for now. :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 16:42, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah... as it turns out, I never took the magazine out of my backpack... Being absentminded sucks. In any case, the information is as follows: I'm not sure about the volume number (I couldn't find any mention of it), but the article is "Crackdown: Cracking the case" (a two-page "Afterthoughts" feature, pp. 40–41) by Greg Ford. If there's anything else you need for it, ask and it shall be given (assuming I don't forget *again*...). —Dinoguy1000 18:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

As someone who has run all over her house looking for her shades only to finally realize they were on her face...I know what you mean! :P I've updated the cite with the rest of the info. They may not have volume numbers for EGM, so no worries. AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The manga

I added stuff on the manga Blood: The Last Vampire2000. (Ugh, that is one sick manga.) It seems I didn't do something right 'cause it's overlapping the infoboxes right now. I've also seen this called Blood: The Last Vampire2002, I think because it was published in the US in 2002. Here is some extra info from the manga that could help beef up the article. --Eruhildo (talk) 05:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed it for you. :) For future note, though, images should not be added to the graphic novel templates, and the summary section is for a plot summary, not the details about the manga. :) I'll see what else I can find, and add the Japanese ISBN in a few minutes. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

'k, thanks. I've never messed with that template before so I just went for it. I guess I knew you'd be able to clean up my mess. Should the manga cover go anywhere in the article or should I mark it for speedy? --Eruhildo (talk) 06:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...for now, I'd have to say speedy primarily because there just isn't room. When the rest of the article is filled out enough that the section gets below the infoboxes, then it might fit and can be reuploaded. As a side note...Production I.G's site has all the novels listed, but not the manga *grumbles* Finally found on their goods site...yay! AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Chiroptera or Teropterids

The article currently uses "chiroptera" as the name of the creatures, yet in several reviews and articles about the film, I see them referred to as Teropterids, including in the Anime Encyclopedia and ANN's review. Anyone know why? AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it's from a translation of one of the novels? Or maybe something on the internet? Maybe even from the producers themselves. What does Teropterid translate to in English? That may explain it. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Good question. On the Production I.G site, the page giving some character design sketches[2] has it listed as ヴァンパイア (vanpaia), which I'm hedging a guess is vampire. It does the same with the captions of some of the film scream shots. No where on the site that I can find does it use either chiroptera nor teropterid. Anyone have the DVD who feels like rewatching to see which is actually said in the film in the original language track? Which one is used in the manga and novels? *confused* AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

ヴァンパイア is one spelling of "vampire". I'm 99% certain I remember hearing Saya or David calling one a chiropteran. And I know I heard Lewis saying the first one Saya killed in the film wasn't a "chiropteran". I'll rewatch it sometime though. Unless "chiropteran" isn't used in the film, I think that's the correct term to use per WP:MOS-AM#Content number 2. --Eruhildo (talk) 02:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that's what I'm thinking too, I just want to be sure because of those rare/odd Teropterid uses :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I just re-watched TLV (SCI-FI reaired it last night), and as I recall, chiropterans were called by name twice (once at the beginning by David, I can't remember the second time), and both times, it actually sounded a lot like "teropterids"/"teropterans". I don't suppose the DVD subtitles could settle this once and for all? Coincidentally, to end another debate, Saya specifically says (in the vehicle garage towards the end of the movie) that the only way to kill chirpoterans is by causing them to lose a sufficient amount of blood in one blow. One of the last scenes, however, shows Saya standing over the last dying chiropteran, holding out her injured arm and allowing her blood to drip onto the chiropteran's face, although judging by her expression, she may have been doing this out of mercy or something (but then, that's original research). —Dinoguy1000 17:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks on clearing that up :) (which makes you wonder, though, why they need her at all LOL). The DVD subtitles would be a good way to know for sure. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Light Novel titles

I changed the transliterations of the Light Novel titles to the ones that match in the published books. On the first and only edition of 闇を誘う血 (Yami o Izanau Chi), the cover and back page include the furigana やみをいざなうち. The the re-released editions of '獣たちの夜 (Kemonotachi no Yoru) and 上海哀儚 (Shanghai Aibyō) include the title as romaji on the top of the cover. Grapeofdeath (talk) 07:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Light novels

Having just read Night of the Beasts, it's pretty clear that Mamoru Oshii intended it to continue the plotline of the movie, rather than just being a related work. That being said, the novel itself consists largely of philosophical discussions on the nature of man, the division between humans and animals, the stigmas associated with dead bodies, and the like - I didn't bother counting, but there have to be at least 60-80 pages consisting of nothing but conversations of this sort between various characters. I'm not sure how this might be relevant to the article, but just though it was at least worth mentioning on the talk page. —Dinoguy1000 18:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Months later, but yes, it looks like the film was made to deliberately be inconclusive, so the novels and video games could finish the story. No idea how the manga ties in or if its more like Blood+'s manga and an alternate version. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:43, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The manga takes place many years later like Blood+, but it seems to be trying to wrap up the story rather than being an alternate version.Grapeofdeath (talk) 05:16, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

'Vanpaia'

Uh, hi. I made a change to the romaji in this article, and it was reverted. I was changing 'Vanpaia' in the title's romaji to 'Banpaia'. Japanese has no 'v' sound. It uses 'b' as a substitute. Could anyone tell me why this change was reverted? Considering it was correct. 68.114.140.48 (talk) 19:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Not having a V sound does mean it has no V. The romanji is V not B. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

V doesn't exist in hiragana, however it was specifically created for loan words in katakana. ヴァ 'va' while バ is 'ba'. It's true in the novels it's written as バンパイヤ but the movies tend to go back and forth using that or ヴァンパイア. This article uses the latter spelling. Grapeofdeath (talk) 01:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Bilingual dialogue

While I agree that the anon's addition was loaded with WP:OR, it's piqued my curiosity: is this worth noting in the article anywhere? The English version also makes use of bilingual dialogue, and a single sentence stating this fact and nothing else in the lead (with a ref if necessary... but would it really be necessary?) would work well, I think. Anyone else's thoughts? —Dinoguy1000 20:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I suspect there may be something interest there, that could be part of the production section, that discusses why the choice was made (and maybe even how they found good English actors, since usually if there is English used in an anime series, its horribly done :P). If I don't remember in the next few days, remind me to check Anime Encyc and Anime Explosion. I think this film is old enough to be in both and I have a vague memory of seeing it in one or both. Doesn't the DVD have some making of type content as well? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

No idea, since I don't have the DVD. But now that I think about it, were different voice actors used for the Japanese and English versions? There's no seiyuu or voice actor info listed here, and List of Blood+ characters doesn't cover TLV. —Dinoguy1000 22:09, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Good question...I couldn't really stand this film so I don't have the DVD, though I could rent it to check the info if you don't have it. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

From what I remember, the Japanese and English versions were identical except for which parts were subtitled. At least, I was unable to find any info on a different Japanese version when I was searching about it a while back. ANN also lists the cast as the same for both the English and the Japanese. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Yep, all the English versions seem to use the original voice cast, which is cool. I've done some expansions in several areas. ANN alone has some 30+ news articles to go through (I went through all the 2000s), and I'm sure ICv2 has a bunch as well. Tons of info for this film, and no reason we shouldn't be able to get this one up to a GA with some reading and sourcing! Anyone want to tackle the plot yet to give it a fuller summary? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Mention of God makes Saya angry?

Huh, funny, I don't remember it from the film... I guess I'll just have to watch more closely the next time it's on. —Dinoguy1000 17:44, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

If I remember correctly its near the beginning after the train incident. Louis (?) says something about God and Saya gets mad about it (and David shushes him). -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

He mentions Jesus and Saya flips out, also, later, the nurse starts praying and Saya tells her to stop, rather forcibly. I'd say it's more of a dislike of religion in general, but that's just speculating. Fallenangei (talk) 01:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that's what I was remembering. Anyone read any of the novels to see if that's expounded on there? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I read Night of the Beasts, but Oshii's insistence on being way too philosophical when he really doesn't understand how to make it work in a novel left me rather unfocused and distracted, so I don't remember if Saya had any such reactions or not. I'll have to check it out and work through it again (and on a side note, it would be nice to see someone write plot summaries for the novels and video games - I'd really like to see how it all fits together with the film). —Dinoguy1000 18:38, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Live action adaptation

The live action movie page lists a plot that seems to have fallen through. From recent press releases and plot synopsis it seems they droped the original plot for the movie (which resembled BloodRayne) and reverted to the plot for the original Anime. Even the shots from the set now being shown are of a much higher quality and look like live action shots of scenes from the anime (such as the sub-way train) and the school. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.116.79 (talk) 08:13, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

DO you have some actual sources regarding this? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 11:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

the still shots from the official website look vastly different from those released months ago, rather than resembling some ancient Chinese battle with bad make up they look like sets based on the anime. And the imb and such sites are no longer stateing the plot as "half vampire vs father of all vampires" but instead stateing "Saya a vampire working for a secret government agency goes undercover in a military school in post WWII Japan to hunt a demon poseing as a student". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.116.79 (talk • contribs) 23:56, November 28, 2008

That doesn't really prove anything. IMDB is not a valid source, nor is your interpretation of the images. That's the same summary as the original, and it really doesn't exclude them doing the whole Saya battles the queen (not father) of the Chiropterans. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 06:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

List of chapters

A list of manga chapters should be added. 76.66.196.229 (talk) 12:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

If you have the manga, feel free to add it. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:01, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

As Collectonian said. We've neglected to add a chapter list, not because we don't want one, but because none of us owns or has access to the manga. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 19:28, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I uh "found" the manga chapter list...someone should compare to the actual release for accuracy. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

They are exactly the same in English and Japanese:

1. 1
2. 2
3. 3
4. 4
5. 5

LAST EPISODE

The Japanese version also has an extra section at the end called 小夜と翼手についての考察 (Saya to Yokushu Nitsuite no Kousatsu). Grapeofdeath (talk) 18:18, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! Added the kanji/romaji to the extra. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:28, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

It seems to me like the chapters aren't really named, but only numbered. Any reason not to just use an ndashed range (like is done on List of Marmalade Boy chapters)? 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 20:26, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

As a fan of Blood for the last nine years (geez, has it really been that long? but I digress) I've gone and searched the various English scanlation manga archives to find the elusive extra section Grapeofdeath mentioned to no avail. Should Grapeofdeath read this, could he/she or any others out there please post a summary of the extra for those of us who have only the English DK release or insufficient knowledge of kanji to understand the original? Many thanks from a long time fan, Victoria. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.19.192 (talk) 14:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

It is not an extra chapter, but just an extra section in the back to talk about the characters. I wanted to leave the description as 'section' but I didn't want to argue with Dinoguy1000. Here are some pictures to show you what it looks like:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52558536@N00/3282527858/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52558536@N00/3282527916/

Grapeofdeath (talk) 20:05, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Eh? Argue, with me? I never suggested anything relating to the extra section, I was merely commenting on how I didn't see the need to fully list the five unnamed chapters. =) 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 03:40, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

No, I was talking about the "section" --> "chapter" change on the main page since it's not really a chapter. Grapeofdeath (talk) 18:26, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh, you mean this, right? I wouldn't argue over that, I just assumed it *was* a chapter at the time. Feel free to update that note to eliminate the ambiguity. ;) 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 21:14, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll probably change it back then since it seems a bit ambiguous. Sorry about that. I didn't mean to come off sounding rude. Grapeofdeath (talk) 22:54, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

No problem, you didn't sound rude to me... 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 19:54, 19 February 2009 (UTC)