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Talk:Camp Pioneer (Oregon)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Game Area/Program Area

There was a reference to a Game area for the scavenger hunt. The hunt is actually conducted in the various Program Areas of the camp and there is no correlating reference to a game area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.60.135.200 (talk) 00:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


Verifiability and Original Research

Per Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research, the following claims need sources to verify them. Facts must be backed by citations to reliable sources that contain these facts.

  • Camp Pioneer is leased from the United States National Forest Service for one dollar per year. The lease agreement is for 30 years and is up for renewal in 2017.
  • The camp retains the 'uncivilized' charm that the camp was originally created with.
  • The camp hosts an average of 250 Boy Scouts and their adult leaders for a week at a time, beginning the first week of July and ending the third week of August.
  • The camp week begins after Sunday lunch and ends Saturday after breakfast.

I have placed {{fact}} tags by these claims. Do not remove these tags without providing a source for the claim they are attached to. MinsiPatches 04:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Note what those policies also say: "Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed." So not everything needs a source. Most of what you tagged above does need a source, but something such as the camp starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday seems a bit much (that's how every Boy Scout summer camp I know of does it). Kind of like we would need to cite that the lake at the camp is filled with water. Aboutmovies 06:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
If it is so obvious (like saying the lake is filled with water) then why is it even relevant to mention it on the page? We don't state obvious facts like "the lake is filled with water". However I have worked at 4 different Boy Scout Camps around the nation and each one has had different starting/ending times and days. Not all camps are on a Sunday afternoon to Saturday morning time-table. So to me, it is not obvious and the claim could easily have been put in there as an assumption, or even hoax. But the other 3 need citations. And the fact that "The camp retains the 'uncivilized' charm that the camp was originally created with" seems somewhat POV. MinsiPatches 04:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
And your point is what? Not to seem abrasive, but yes we do state the obvious, see WP:OBVIOUS. Second, I agree the other three do need citations, as I thought you might have discovered above where I said "Most of what you tagged above does need a source" and the only item I questioned was the Sun-Sat issue. And then with your last sentence, I'm confused as I didn't read that in the article. Oh, that's right I removed it. That's right, its unecyclopedic and should have been removed instead of being tagged. Next time just remove something such as that, instead of tagging it, and then next time maybe read trough the article again or check the edit history. Aboutmovies 06:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


The of the 4 issues mentioned above two can be easily verified by going to the BSA Cascade Pacific Council website and drill down to the 2007, 2008, 2009 camp reservation forms. http://www.cpcbsa.org/downloads/forms/pdf/08_camp_reservation_form.pdf. All the start dates are on Sunday and end dates are on Saturday. The Leaders guide also states that you are not to arrive at camp before 12:30 as the camp does not open until 13:00. Prior arrangements can be made for early arrival. Even if you arrive early, the camp does not start until after 1:00 checkin on Sunday. (page 22) http://www.cpcbsa.org/downloads/forms/pdf/2007boyscoutprog.pdf
End of camp is also discussed in the same guide, 10:00 Departure on Saturday (page 28). But providing a link to a 5MB PDF that changes yearly is not the best way to work on this Wiki. So I disagree with the "citations needed"
The quote "The camp hosts an average of 250 Boy Scouts and their adult leaders for a week at a time", would appear to be an exaggeration based on this link... http://www.cpcbsa.org/downloads/forms/pdf/camp_availability.pdf. The average appears to be closer to 170 Boys and Adults. Perhaps including support staff, the average is 250, but the camp restricts campers when over 140 boys are registered.

Fan POV

To further clarify this article's need to be cleaned up, I classified it as "Fan Point of View". The article has a definite feeling of being like a brochure rather than an article. I think that, without sources being given in the near future, the article should be reduced by at least half to remove original research and statements like "rustic". I plan on changing much of the article (mostly through deletion of unprovable statements) within a month unless the article is sufficiently cleaned up to a higher standard of quality. VogonFord (talk) 20:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you need to wait that long. Back during its AFD I tried long and hard to find sources. What was surprising was how little mention there has been, except for evidence of thousands of people spending time there. One might think there'd be a little accident once in a while at least.... —EncMstr (talk) 20:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I guess I won't, then! The changes have been made. The article is now short but far more acceptable for Wikipedia rather than the classifieds. Apparently, though, I forgot to log in when I did it. The latest edit was by me. VogonFord (talk) 18:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
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