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old discussion[edit]

Lessa is only disguised as a drudge, or she would have no birthright to Ruatha. DJ Clayworth 19:05, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Hola —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Citing McCaffrey[edit]

"McCaffrey 1999" may be confusing here, as Mirokado elsewhere warns may happen re Todd & Anne. The main text doesn't now mention Todd (the 1999 author) at either point; he is explicitly identified by fullname only for the reader who clicks twice. Is this potential confusion important? --P64 (talk) 20:49, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Bending the short form citations to use the book title is a bit clumsy. While this only happens in Anne McCaffrey we can handle it specially. If we decide to do that everywhere, it would be better to give up on the italics so the linking can be handled more automatically. I suggest for now, use the automatic handling of author name while we only cite one or other author in the sort form formats for a given article. It will certainly be great fun to provide clear and consistent references for thirty odd articles as they grow! As long as what we do now is reasonably consistent and disciplined it will be easy to make any necessary changes in the future. --Mirokado (talk) 21:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Mr Rabbit has shown us how to generate tidy short-form inlines for a book title with his updates to Anne McCaffrey, so I have introduced that method here too. The idea would be to end up with all the short-form refs to Dragonholder (and anything else as necessary) being consistent. Also similar use of sfnRef for story titles and the ISFDB citations which saves intermediate named refs. The patterns are (updated to take account of subsequent suggestions):

source patterns for titles in Harvard refs
sfn citation
{{sfn|''Book Title''|1999}} {{cite book ... |ref={{sfnRef|.27.27Book Title.27.27|1999}} }}
{{sfn|"Story Title", ISFDB}} {{wikicite |reference=... |ref={{sfnRef|"Story Title", ISFDB}} }}

I've also introduced {{efn}} which seems a tidier way of defining the lower-alpha notes than the more explicit wiki syntax. I will make corresponding changes to other related articles when convenient. Comments welcome, as usual. --Mirokado (talk) 13:10, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Use {{sfnRef}}, not {{harvid}}; the latter is now just a redirect, and sfnRef more clearly associates with sfn. That span thing looks weird; should be a cleaner way to do that, but have not looked. Mebbe you're looking for {{wikicite}}, which can wrap anything. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 16:49, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
See here and here for how to switch to {{wikicite}}. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 17:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the examples. The source is looking much cleaner now and I'll use that as a new basis. --Mirokado (talk) 20:27, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Corresponding updates with minor variations plus other odds and ends in Dragonquest. --Mirokado (talk) 18:06, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Citing ISFDB[edit]

Several pages at ISFDB are now the only "Web sites" under References.

These listings include some of my old detail listings as hidden comments, eg "p8-60, cover & interior (3) illus Schoenherr; map p10; 46+ pp text". Should references to ISFDB be replaced or supplemented by references to Analog on some matters? I have now read the originals, and this is the time to ask whether they should be cited only in reference to what is outside the scope of ISFDB --mainly their content, the original stories.

What should be the layout of the ISFDB citations? I presume they should be grouped together even if other "Web sites" are added. Currently the Analog stories are under Dragonflight (hierarchical) but Dragonflight precedes Dragonriders of Pern (alphabetical or importance?). The instructions regarding ISFDB navigation are part of the Dragonriders of Pern listing, where the current wording fits.

Why provide references to ISFDB in this fashion (eg, Weyr Search ISFDB) parallel to Author Date?

  • we anticipate multiple references to the same page at ISFDB, with details that differ as page numbers do?
  • we separate the template message "publication contents at the Internet Speculative Fiction Database" from references? (I have wondered whether the template should be modified (switch) or forked (two templates) to generate one message for external links and one for references.)
  • we help the observant reader learn about ISFDB, by grouping all the complete citations together? (If so, the layout should not be alphabetical.)

--P64 (talk) 21:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Locus 1987 all-time #9[edit]

Hours ago I found our given source at LocusMag missing, and provided an alternative source at ISFDB.

Since then (a) User:Mirokado has found a copy of the original at InternetArchive, and restored it to the lead of this article [1] (without actually retaining ISFDB as the edit summary says)
(b) I have found LocusMag's new presentation of three early all-time polls/awards (promoting purchase of a later one), and used it in the lead of The Left Hand of Darkness. Here it is.

[remark] "Locus Poll Best All-time Novel Results" alternately displays the standings generated by three different subscriber polls.

(The remark appears in The Left Hand of Darkness#Notes. FYI, Dragonflight did not rate with Locus subscribers in 1975.) --P64 (talk) 01:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Arrr. I did in fact retain the ISFDB citation in the updated ref, see below.[1] The list you have found for LHD makes it easy for readers to compare the 1975 and 1987 lists, so if you wish you could use that here too. --Mirokado (talk) 02:08, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
  1. ^ "The Locus Index to SF Awards: 1987 Locus All-time Poll". Locus. Archived from the original on 2004-01-13. Retrieved 2011-10-12. Originally published in the monthly Locus, August 1987. 
    • See also "1987 Locus Poll Award". ISFDB. Retrieved 2012-04-12.
Oops, in a rush i missed that yesterday. Thanks for watching. --P64 (talk) 22:42, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

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