Talk:French cruiser Sfax/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Usernameunique (talk · contribs) 19:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

Here and elsewhere, images could stand to have alt text.

Following up. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

the Mediterranean, Northern, and Reserve Squadrons — Anything to link to?
- Nothing at the moment, unfortunately
had been reduced to reserve. — Had again been reduced?
- Not exactly - the French had two levels of reserve at the time, the Reserve Squadron and the 2nd category of reserve. The ships in the Reserve Squadron were kept in partial commission through the year (mainly to take part in training exercises), while the 2nd category was reserved for older ships that were only brought into service in time of war.
  - Got it. It would be nice if there were an explanation somewhere of what the second category was—an article specifically on France's reserve fleet might do it, and/or a footnote in this article—but it's not a dealbreaker for GAN. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - At some point I'll get around to creating articles on the various units, but my typical MO is to write articles on the ships and then once a reasonable picture of where ships were at various times and who was in command, it's easier to write articles on the units (see for instance III Battle Squadron).

Design

3,000 long tons (3,000 t) — Inconsistent abbreviation, here and elsewhere in the section.
- Long tons aren't ever abbreviated (don't ask me why)
  - Same with knots and square meters. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The French naval engineer Louis-Émile Bertin protested the beginning of construction of the new ship — Why? Was it clear such ships were out of date?
- Ropp doesn't provide Bertin's reasoning, unfortunately - but I'd assume so. Many navies built unprotected cruisers of the sort that preceded Sfax, and it's widely acknowledged by naval historians that they had little military utility. I'd assume many contemporaneous engineers and naval officers viewed them the same.

Characteristics

4,561 long tons (4,634 t) — Inconsistent abbreviation.
- As above
Her crew consisted of 486 officers and enlisted men — Any idea how many of each?
- No, unfortunately
mounted in sponsoned — Is this correct? The "ed" in "sponsoned" looks odd.
- Fixed
that was 61 mm (2.4 in) in total — That was 61 mm (2.4 in) thick in total?
- Done
Later in her career, Sfax was modernized — When? Any more details? This seems like a somewhat short paragraph for what was likely a big overhaul.
- No, unfortunately - I did locate a reference to a modernization that was carried out in 1898, but the source only mentioned work on her engines and replacing her masts. Based on experience writing articles on other French warships of the period, it was not uncommon for major warship to have multiple refits over the years, so I don't want to assume the armament updates happened in the 1898 refit.

Service history

Mediterranean Fleet ... Northern Squadron — Anything to link to?
- There's Mediterranean Fleet (France), which is a redirect, but I suppose that's better than nothing
along with the cruisers Sfax, Amiral Cécille, Milan, and Léger. — Sfax participated along with Sfax?
- Fixed
She was struck from the naval register in 1906 — Any details on why?
- Old age

References

Was Brassey the second the author rather than—like Brassey the first—the editor?
- Thomas A. was usually the editor after he took over from his father (though there was at least one year I've seen where Leyland served as the editor), but he also wrote several of the chapters in each yearly volume. The early editions of the journal didn't credit the authors of the chapters (presumably because it was all Brassey - it started out as his project), and for the later ones, it seems redundant to list the son as author of the chapter and as the editor.
Most of the works are long since in the public domain. Are there links to them on Google Books, Hathitrust, Archive.org, etc.?
- Think I've got them all
  - Missing Brassey 1888, Gleig 1896, "Naval Notes: France" 1898, and Thursfield 18197. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Those are redundant to other iterations of the same volume linked earlier. Some of the journals had multiple articles that were cited, which required separate citations. Parsecboy (talk) 17:44, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - By that logic, aren't those citations redundant? A good way of handling would be to add links to the start of the specific chapters. A reader isn't necessarily going to say "there's no link, but let me check to see if the volume is cited somewhere else as well with a link."
The Naval Annual could be linked.
- Done
Does The Naval Annual not have volume/issue numbers?
- Nope
Conner 2014: Where is Jefferson? Also, ISBN could be hyphenated.
- North Carolina - I don't put states/provinces/etc. in references as I don't see a point to it. Hyphens added.
  - "Jefferson" by itself doesn't mean much: see some of the many options at Jefferson#Places. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Right, but my point is, why do we care? The purpose of the citation is to identify the ref, and what state or country it's published in isn't useful information. Parsecboy (talk) 17:44, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

- - - - Sure, but by that logic, why bother mentioning Jefferson? Heck, why bother listing anything other than the ISBN? In fact, arguably "North Carolina" is more important than "Jefferson"; the former gives a sense of where the publisher is located, and the latter doesn't.
Nice article, Parsecboy. Just minor comments. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:28, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your review! Parsecboy (talk) 20:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - No problem, Parsecboy. I've left some points above, but am passing now. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Two super critical comments above, Parsecboy. I think you may have also missed my earlier comments re: alt text and abbreviated units. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]