Talk:Gilgamesh (Fate/stay night)

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2 December 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was merge to List of Fate/stay night characters.

Knife and Scythe[edit]

Hey hommies, here's my question! In the anime, Gilgamesh is seen using a knife with apparently ice/wind magical powers and a scythe whose blade teleports to its target. I figure those two are obviously Noble Phantasms and not mere weapons simply because of this.

I know they are not portrayed in the games, however, would it be possible for people to help dig out whether or not those two weapons have any actual backing in either the Epic of Gilgamesh or in other Babylon-era myths?

Oh yeah by the way some jerks are whining about the pictures used in his bio, might want to fill their fair use rationale or whatever so the wiki snobs stop whining and then get rid of the warnings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.83.146.151 (talk) 03:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just a "for your information", there's no jerk that's whining about the pictures, it's a bot program that checks pictures for the fair use rationale and, when not finding any, flags it on the talk page so people can add it. It's a helpful tool to prevent pictures from being removed without warning. Nezu Chiza (talk) 17:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Enkidu[edit]

I know I was the one who put up Enkidu as a Noble Phantasm, but there's no real reason to suggest it is one; aside from "binding the Gods", it's not listed as a Noble Phantasm in any material I have read, but is simply a weapon not unlike Rider's Nail and Berserker's Axe-Club Sword. -Terek

I think so too, but it's more comparable with Mystic Eyes and Tsubame Gaeshi, since it's not just a normal weapon like the Nail. I'll move it under a Special Technique category once I get back. Ephyon 21:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's not really what I meant. I was implying that Enkidu be removed entirely, as it isn't exactly relevant and only clogs up the neatness of the articles more if mentioned in another category (which is why I am trying to push against adding multiple subsections). If putting it under a "special technique" category is the only option, I would recommend moving Enkidu back under Noble Phantasms and noting that, like UBW and Tsubame Gaeshi, it isn't a *true* Noble Phantasm but is treated like one. This is a designation necessary merely for simplicity. Terek 00:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gilgamesh defeated Saber?[edit]

I'm not changing it because I'm not sure, but weren't Kiritsugu and Saber the ones who got the Grail in the 4th War? Ephyon 19:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Gilgamesh "defeated" Saber, but Saber and Kiritsugu definately got to the Holy Grail first. The Holy Grail was destroyed and it's contents poured onto Gilgamesh (some splattered on Kiritsugu, which eventually ended his life) allowing our gold friend to walk the earth without a master, since Holy Grail is needed for a servant to stay in the real world. In consequence, he took some of the essence of the holy grail when the contents poured all over him. Hope that answers your question Mirioki 17:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Biography Size[edit]

Should I cut down Gilgamesh's biography? It's almost a paraphrase of the Epic of Gilgamesh in its entirety, and his biography alone dwarfs those of the other Servants. Perhaps I should increase the size of the other biographies...? Terek 04:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say cut it. I can't imagine why such level of clarification could be necessary when there's already an article dedicated to the mythic Gilgamesh. At best, the Servants’ pages should contain a basic description of their literary counterparts, not the whole story. Ephyon 17:08, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I'm going to increase the size of Lancer, Berserker, and Caster; Rider, Arturia, and Archer really can't be touched because TYPE-MOON fiddled with their biographies, but we can assume the legends are intact for all the others. I would favour more detail over not enough any day, except in the case of plagiarism. Terek 00:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anime Question[edit]

In the anime, during Gilgamesh's fight with Lancer, the last weapon Gilgamesh pulls from the gate is a spiral-shaped sword. This looks like the same sword that Archer summons and shoots from his bow at Berzerker. Anyone know if it's supposed to be a copy of the same one, and if so whether it crops up in the game --81.174.244.104 23:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The sword is Caladbolg II, and is one of Archer's few "Home-made" Noble Phantasms. It was never used and the game and Gilgamesh should have never had it. It was an anime mishap. --Shiirn 11:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I figured it was the original Caladbolg, because EMIYA/Archer's Caladbolg II was a modifed form of Caladbolg, made more aerodynamic (since he used it with Hrunting a lot). So, it makes sense for the original Caladbolg to be a bulkier form of Caladbolg II. I can understand Gilgamesh owning the original Caladbolg, even if it wasn't shown in the game. --59.167.105.53 12:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Complete List of Gilgamesh Weapons[edit]

There are currently disputes over the role of citations for media-related material for FSN, so in the past we've been limited in what we can credibly put up here. However, I would like to ask everyone available to include any extra weapons found in Gilgamesh's vault, as well as accompanying pictures like in the case of Archer's biography, so that we can create a sense of "wholeness" to the artcie. At the bottom of each Servant page, I'll be adding a little segment that denotes external links so people can find the original material we got our sources from, since (apparently) using a fansite as a source is incorrect. Terek 02:42, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, Gáe Bolg? I knew the proto-form was in the vault (Whatever it's name was), but how can Gil have the same version of an NP as another hero? And, more importantly, when has he ever been seen with it? Ephyon 07:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind. Ephyon 13:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it's probably wrong that Gae Bolg was seen in Gate of Babylon; it was probably either Gungir or Brionac, most likely Gungir. That spear is the source of Gae Bolg and would be its prototype as well; it's weaker than Gae Bolg too. 169.237.214.148 22:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

INSERT SOUND OF MY HEAD SLAMMING AGAINST THE WALL

The spear in the vault is not Gae Bolg, and Gilgamesh apparently has both Gungnir (Odin's lance) and Brionac (Lugh's) - or the original of them. That one heavily looks like Gae Bolg, yes. Cú Chulainn's Gae Bolg is supposed to be a different spear than Brionac AFAIK. Gil uses two seemingly different swords, Merodach and Gram (amongst others). Merodach isn't a weapon that actually exists, and Gram is the one that is also called Balmung or Nothung. - Baiken in Beast's Lair

The Sword: It makes a lot of sense for Merodach and Gram/Balmung/Nothung to be separate weapons, and Arai's wiki does list Merodach as the basis of Gram and Caliburn. Problem is, we then have a picture of a sword that doesn't have any explanation since it doesn't exist in mythology (Merodach), and a description of a sword with no picture (Gram). Wonderful.

The Spear: Gil has Brionac and Gungnir. Considering that Lugh is Cúchulainn's father in the Ulster Cycle, it could make sense for Brionac to resemble Gáe Bolg, especially considering Gil's father-son weapon argument. Though Arai lists Gungnir as the base, which makes sense considering the never-miss trait. Actually, that doesn't matter, the important part is that Lancer's magic pointy-stick-of-auto-aiming-and-explodie isn't in the Vault. Which once again leaves us with two weapons with no picture.

I'm out of ideas. You decide what to do. Ephyon 22:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

UGH, this sound nasty. I'll omit it for now until we get more data as to figuring out what is what. I should note, though, that it's unconfirmed as to whether or not Gil has Gungnir and Brionac; Archer has Gungnir and Gil has Gae Bolg's "base", so it would make sense for Gungnir to be the spear we see here. I'll mess with it later after I'm done with the abilities + table formats. Terek 09:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not Babylonia[edit]

Gilgamesh wasn't a Babylonian king. Babylonia didn't even exist at the time. He was the King of Sumer during the Uruk period, which MUCH later merged with Akkad and became Babylonia with the rise of Hammurabi. --Ephyon 16:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:FSN GILGAMESH.JPG[edit]

Image:FSN GILGAMESH.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Enuma Elish and Enkidu.JPG[edit]

Image:Enuma Elish and Enkidu.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Enuma Elish.JPG[edit]

Image:Enuma Elish.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Gate of Babylon.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:31, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Durendal.JPG[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Merodach.JPG[edit]

Image:Merodach.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]