Talk:List of Go players

Initial Comments

I was thinking that it'd be great if we could really expand this section. Not having just the great players of yesterday and today, but players from all over the world who are good and not yet legendary. Like comprehensive lists of young players from Japan, Korea, China etc.. What do you guys think? Can 19:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this section should be significantly expanded. But the players have to be relatively famous to meet the high standard of encyclopedia. Right? --Neo-Jay 19:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There should be several hundred players who meet the criteria, out of a few thousand 'known' players through history. Charles Matthews 20:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They should be famous, a least a little, sure. But what I'm aiming for is compiling big lists of players from different countries instead of just having a list of well-known players. Can 21:07, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For most countries, though, there are only amateur players. And that makes more of a difficulty in establishing who is 'famous' enough to be here. Charles Matthews 22:24, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking of re-ordering this list by birthdate so the players from the early era's were listed first, then gradually moving down to today's modern players. Can 21:15, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Verification

I think that the ranking of the historical players should be verified. If I'm not completely mistaken, the 9-dan professional rank was not used until the 20th century, and if I remember correctly Shuusaku's rank was 7 dan when he died (and iirc 8 dan was the maximum at that time, and even that was a rather special rank or something). Naturally one could argue that "the title of Honinbo was like being 9 dan today" but that would just be speculation, not an official ranking system.

Also the notation "9p" is dubious, most probably an internet-era product than an official notation. Professionals are ranked with "dan", not "p". While it is true that professional ranks are different from amateur ranks (a professional 1 dan is immensely stronger than an amateur 1 dan) and in some situations a distinction might be in place, I think that the official rank notation should be used in such a serious publication as this one. Or at the very least the "p" notation should be explained. --Juha Nieminen

The "p" is used to differentiate the amatuer "d"'s with the professionals.

I know, and I think I made that clear. I think I also made it clear that the "p" is, as far as I know, not an official notation but something which has been invented probably in the internet. Officially professional ranks are "dans" and I think that this page should use the official ranks, not ad-hoc notations. And as I said, if nothing else, at least the "p" notation should be explained.

Even after all this time the unofficial "p" notation is still used (instead of the official "dan), and completely unexplained. I suppose some things never change. Wopr 12:28, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:WEASEL and WP:PEACOCK

I'm concerned about the use of phrases such as "considered by many" and "greatest of all time", which are hard to quantify and are against WP:WEASEL and WP:PEACOCK. Here's an example:

Go Seigen (呉清源, Wu Qingyuan in Chinese, born 1914) 9p, is considered by many the greatest player of the 20th century, perhaps the greatest of all time. He had a superb match play record, before the current era dominated by annual titles.

Can anyone suggest different ways to present this info? Thanks, delldot | talk 03:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion

New suggestion: I'd suggest that the "go players in the west" table be either deleted or expanded large (there are way more than 4 players, plz, and the selection is arbitrary) AND, more importantly, another table be made for the few professionals who come from the West. Some of them are listed in the Korean/Japanese tables, too, but not all, and i think it is necessary to have an overview of the exceptional cases when any Non-Asian made it to Pro, starting with C. Taranu, S. Shikshina, Janice Kim, D. Kőszegi, M. Redmond, A. Dinerchtein, H. Pietsch, M. Wimmer...I'm afraid I do not have a complete list. Anapazapa (talk) 21:22, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Players

There are many more ancient Chinese players mentioned in the Chinese Wikipedia version of this article than are mentioned in this article. It'd be nice if someone can include them in this article too (I'm not too well-versed with Go history, so I'm not sure if I'm the best guy for the job.) It'd be also nice to include some Korean historical players if someone knows about them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MengTzu622 (talk • contribs) 01:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Non-Asian professionals

I have seen various references in go articles on Wikipedia to the fact that there are only a limited number of professionals who are citizens of countries other than the big four. For example, the article on Alexandre Dinerchtein says he's one of only eight. But I haven't seen any references. Surely there is a reliable reference somewhere that lists them explicitly. Maybe someone who can read an Asian language can find one. 136.152.224.74 (talk) 03:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

Just because a go professional was from a western country doesn't make them notable. Otake Hideo has won many professional titles but he's not listed here, Diana Koszegi has won no professional titles but she is listed here. Fafas (talk) 00:54, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's quite alarming that someone of Otake's prestige isn't listed. I was going to bring up the issue of some players being listed here. I think Diana Koszegi is notable enough because of the small amount of western professionals, but some other players have won little or no titles at all could be found in the linked categories instead of in the list here. How does the idea of listing only players who have won a major title sound? Another requirement would be including players who have done something notable e.g. Segoe Kensaku for bringing Go Seigen to Japan and Seto Taiki for his almost undefeated record in the Oteai. In the meantime I will be working on a new format, but will post it in my userspace before posting the overhaul on here. Also, how come all the Japanese players names are like that? (e.g. Koichi Kobayashi instead of Kobayashi Koichi) Everywhere else he is called Kobayashi Koichi. Same with all the other Japanese professionals. This is quite confusing. Leesed0l (talk) 17:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a suggestion / discussion re notability for Go players, at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Go#Notability_of_Professional_Go-players, to which all interested parties are invited to contribute.

As for Diana Koszegi - well, whilst she's clearly not a high dan rank, she's well known in Western Go circles as she's a rare female non-Asian professional. IMHO, such a rare exception to the rule warrants her inclusion on WP. Trafford09 (talk) 22:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I believe what Fafas was concerned with originally was the fact that Otake Hideo was completely missing from the list, not the notability guidelines for go players. Leesed0l (talk) 06:21, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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