Talk:Gordon Sondland/Archive 1

Archive 1

title

This page should ideally be renamed and moved to Gordon Sondland without the D Fingerpoke (talk) 21:40, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the above user as my research has shown that in Oregon Mr. Sondland is referred to without the D in most cases, including recent media reports. Here are a couple of links to back what is being said here:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/portlandcityhall/2010/12/reader_question_what_does_gord.html

http://urbanworks.typepad.com/urbanworks/2010/03/gordon-sondlandi-can-sleep-at-night.html

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gordon-sondland/5/b93/372

http://www.aspencapital.com/the-team --Maggletooth (talk) 21:50, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Moved as per consensus (and non-contentious nature of request). Nikthestoned 15:17, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

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Gordon D. Sondland → Gordon Sondland

• It has been determined that Mr. Sondland to is more often referred to as Gordon Sondland than Gordon D Sondland, therefore this listing needs to adhere to that notion. The links posted above provide proper rationale. Maggletooth (talk) 22:04, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
• Support. Quick check of google news shows he is generally referred to without the initial. Jenks24 (talk) 01:55, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
• Support: a HighBeam search for Gorden D. Sondland gets nine hits. Four are without the initial, four have it, and one includes the middle name David. —EncMstr (talk) 03:10, 9 May 2012 (UTC) Nevermind: Invalid search.

Searching for Gordon Sondland gets 15 hits: 10 without the D.; 4 with D., including his foundation, The Gordon D. Sondland and Katherine J. Durant Foundation, and the previously mentioned Gordon David Sondland which appears in theWenatchee Business Journal on November 1, 2006, related to a restaurant liquor license application. —EncMstr (talk) 09:12, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

• Support per this official site, which does indeed have his initial for the images etc (the things that are hard to change) yet omits the initial any time he is mentioned in text (while maintaining the middle-initial for "Katherine J. Durant"). Nikthestoned 08:58, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

copyright

there is not a copyright issue with this article - it appears the wording in question is simply the name of Gordon Sondland's Foundation which also appears on the Foundation website. Kwarnock (talk) 17:05, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Rephrasing of awkward section

Something about these two sentences in the Political involvement section sound off to me, could we consider re-phrasing?

As a result of his political involvement, Sondland and his businesses have been the subject of increased press coverage, especially among local media outlets. However, recent attempts to criticize his business practices in publications like Willamette Week and Eater Portland were later corrected.[41][42]

Sounds oddly PR-ish to my ear. PvOberstein (talk)

You can fix them yourself, if you can track down the sources. Otherwise, I would lobby to delete them. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 03:29, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Went ahead and deleted them. PvOberstein (talk) 16:31, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Jay Sekulow

Why is Jay Sekulow linked as "See Also"? Sondland is not mentioned in Sekulow's article, or vice versa. 173.217.182.134 (talk) 10:57, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Correction requested: Philanthropy section

CURRENT WORDING: Sondland serves on ... the board of visitors of the Sanford School of Public Policy at Duke University.[47]

UPDATED WORDING: Sondland was previously a member of the board of visitors of the Sanford School of Public Policy at Duke University from 2017 to July 2018.

NOTE: Citation is from 2018 and is outdated. Here is the current list of Board members: https://sanford.duke.edu/about-us/inside-sanford/leadership-board-visitors — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkhire (talk • contribs) 01:21, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Education

This article says he dropped out of college, but also seems to say he has a BA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cj67 (talk • contribs) 14:46, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Submits Written Revision of Testimony

How should the article present Sondland's submission of a written revision to Congress claiming testimonies of other witnesses had caused him to recall important facts about the existence of a quid pro quo following their public release? Student of Sci&Life (talk) 20:35, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

TV Appearance

Gordon Sondland played a museum owner in Leverage season 5 episode 1 The (Very) Big Bird Job 2012.

Content Removal Request

At the end of the section United States ambassador to the European Union, this page cites a Washington Post article that makes a number of claims about Sondland's activities as ambassador that appear to be based primarily on unnamed White House and State Department officials - claims that were also made in the heat of the Impeachment scandal. Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons states, "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives." It also states, "Be wary of relying on sources . . . that attribute material to anonymous sources." It would seem that this section is more sensationalistic than encyclopedic and should either be removed or heavily edited. Eagernewsbeaver (talk) 16:17, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

While I have no reason to doubt the WashPo editors of this article, I have been unable to find any other news source that made similar claims. Perhaps removing it may be the best way to go. I'm going to ask another editor, user:SPECIFICO, to take a look at it as well to be sure we are making a good decision. Gandydancer (talk) 00:59, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any BLP problem with that. Unnamed sources are known to the reporters, and Washington Post does not publish rumors from sources not known to them or not verified by other sources, even if ^not^ ("not" added later) publicly identified. The whole paragraph might be reworded to sound a little less like rumor and more to reflect the judgment of qualified sources giving an evaluation of Sonderland's conduct based on their knowledge and experience. SPECIFICO talk 00:50, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

The content seems to abide by our BLP rules and is properly sourced. Keep it. It simply demonstrates the unusual nature of Trump's appointments, who are often inexperienced and are working more for Trump's private and political interests than for the nation. We see this pattern often. His appointees irritate and often shock other experienced civil servants who are serving the nation. -- BullRangifer (talk) 02:05, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you. I'm the one that added it in the first place so it is good to have other eyes take a look at it. SPECIFICO, you suggested a wording change, could you suggest something here or make the change to the article? Hopefully with the three of us in agreement the editor that saw the inclusion as problematic will understand that it meets WP standards for a BLP. Gandydancer (talk) 02:36, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Maybe BR can do a copyedit? SPECIFICO talk 02:56, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all for the good feedback, and understood on the BLP rules. I still think some edits might be in order to this section since some of the claims appear to be unverifiable. For instance, the section says, "He habitually traveled to Romania, Israel and other countries without coordinating his meetings with other officials." But it's unclear that these visits were uncoordinated or unofficial. See for example the official US Ambassador to the EU Twitter feed, where Sondland appears to be on official visits to Romania (here and here) and Israel (here).Eagernewsbeaver (talk) 17:45, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps I misunderstand your point but if I understand you correctly you seem to be suggesting that WP editors can and should take the responsibility of checking out sources that WP has deemed to be reliable?

To make discussion easier I will bring the copy of the WashPo article here:

"In Brussels, Sondland garnered a reputation for his truculent manner and fondness for the trappings of privilege. He peppered closed-door negotiations with four-letter words. He carried a wireless buzzer into meetings at the U.S. Mission that enabled him to silently summon support staff to refill his teacup.

"Sondland seemed to chafe at the constraints of his assignment. He traveled for meetings in Israel, Romania and other countries with little or no coordination with other officials. He acquired a reputation for being indiscreet, and was chastised for using his personal phone for state business, officials said.

"Sondland also shuttled repeatedly back to Washington, often seeking face time with Trump. When he couldn’t gain entry to the Oval Office, officials said, he would meet instead with White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, preferring someone closer to Trump’s inner circle than national security officials responsible for Europe. "He always seemed to be in D.C.,” a former White House official said. “People would say, ‘Does he spend any time in Brussels?’ ”[1]

In my experience when one wades into these waters where criticism needs to be placed in a BLP the only way to do it is through direct quotes. On the other hand, I've read criticisms by editors that complain about using too many quotes. In this particular case, IMO we do need to get it across to our readers that (like so many of Trump's choices for high office positions) Sondland was...not as qualified as... as...some of his peers would have desired...to say it as nicely as possible. When I added this WashPo article stuff I felt I was being more than fair when I left out the worst of the stuff that was being said about him. Gandydancer (talk) 19:58, 25 February 2020 (UTC)