Talk:HMS Phoenix (1783)

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Charles John Austen[edit]

Anyone know if Capt. Charles John Austen is Jane Austen's brother? Pustelnik (talk) 02:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC) Jane did have a younger brother, Admiral Charles John Austin, born June 23, 1779, died 1852. The dates fit.Pustelnik (talk) 12:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Correct, they are one and the same. See here Benea (talk) 21:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section incorrect?[edit]

Although the trivia section's claim about the Grand Turk being a replica of the HMS Phoenix is sourced, the page Grand Turk (frigate) says it is actually a replica of the HMS Blandford, an earlier warship. I think that the latter is correct, as the Grand Turk looks much more like an early frigate from the 1740's than HMS Phoenix, from the 1780's. Should this section be deleted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keegsshipguy (talkcontribs) 02:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a bit tricky. The Grand Turk website says the drawings were based on HMS Blandford (presumably the vessel launched in 1741). It slightly flies in the face of their claim to have desired to recreate a vessel of the Nelson era, since Blandford was sold in 1763. But the company is apparently 'The 'Turk Phoenix Ltd' which may be where the confusion comes in. Blandford was a sixth rate, while Phoenix was a fifth rate, but Grand Turk is considerably bigger than Blandford, bigger even than Phoenix! Presumably they have just scaled everything up in order to fit accommodation, engines and everything else the original ships didn't have. There were several Phoenixes during the eighteenth century, the bbc article does not specify it was this one that was the basis for the replica. There was a 24-gun sixth rate, launched in 1743, but the nearest one in size is a 44-gun fifth rate launched in 1759, which is still smaller than Grand Turk! I think the best we can say is that the designs were based on Blandford, the Phoenix connection is possibly a mistake, and that Grand Turk is not meant to be a to-scale replica. Benea (talk) 03:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Weaponry.[edit]

"The Phoenix carried eight 32-pounder carronades beyond her establishment of 36 18-pounders."

She what?

Her establishment is a 36. That does NOT mean she carried 36 18 pounders.

Pheonix was a ship of the Perseverance class. Like her sisters, she was designed for 26 18 pounders on her Upper Deck. (13 per side) Had 18 pounders been put in the upper works they would have gone through the deck! See the article on Inconstant for the correct design outfitting of the class. Note that heavier 32 pounder Carronades were certainly carried on these ships as already mentioned in the article when they were available. (see Frigates of the Napoleonic Wars p10)

   * Upper gundeck: 26 × 18 pdrs
   * Quarterdeck: 8 × 9 pdrs, 4 × 18 pdr carronades
   * Forecastle: 2 × 9 pdrs, 4 × 18 pdr carronades

Weight of Broadside. 234 +36 +36 +9 +36 =351 pound broadside


"36" refers to the number of cannon, excluding Carronade as is the practice of the day. Confusingly, when later refitted with carronades in lieu of cannon in the upper works the ship was still refered to as a 36 as that was her establishment, even though she only carried 28 cannon in total. If you counted Carronades (which would be quite sensible, considering they actually account for most of the weight of shot!) then like many of her sisters she actually mounted 44 guns. However, this wasn't actually "officially" recognised until around 1817.

   * Upper gundeck: 26 × 18 pdrs
   * Quarterdeck: 12 × 32 pdr carronades
   * Forecastle: 2 × 9 pdrs, 4 × 32 pdr carronades

Weight of Broadside. 234 +192 +9 +64 = 499 pound broadside

Confused? Don't worry, the general public of the time didn't realise this either.

I'll correct the article.

Freyr829 (talk) 11:50, 10 November 2009 (UTC)