Talk:Invest (meteorology)

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Why 90 to 99?

Why is only this range of numbers used for invests? 81.159.61.104 (talk) 15:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'm not sure of the exact reason, but it might be to avoid confusion with normal TDs and named storms, which start at 1. It might help to have a specially-reserved range for invests, so when say 95L is on the NRL page, people know it's an invest rather than something else, even without reading the .INVEST part, and when they actually form they are given a number, such as 08L. Hope this helps. Thanks. ~A H 1^(TCU) 16:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

North Atlantic cyclones do not use a suffix, so "08L" actually should be simply "08". This is one big difference between invest numbers and TC numbers, as you see on the template table I furnished:

Tropical Cyclone Numbering^[1]^[2]^[3]
Basin(s)	Warning Center	Format	Example
N Atlantic	NHC	nn (nnL)^[a]	06 (06L)
NE Pacific (E of 140°W)	NHC	nnE	09E
NC Pacific (E of IDL, W of 140°W)	CPHC	nnC	02C
NW Pacific (W of IDL)	JMA	yynn (nn, Tyynn)^[b]	1330 (30, T1330)
NW Pacific (W of IDL)	JTWC	nnW	10W
N Indian (Bay of Bengal)	IMD	BOB nn	BOB 03
N Indian (Bay of Bengal)	JTWC	nnB	05B
N Indian (Arabian Sea)	IMD	ARB nn	ARB 01
N Indian (Arabian Sea)	JTWC	nnA	02A
Mediterranean	SAB	nnM	90M
SW Indian (W of 90°E)	MFR	nn (REnn)^[c]	07 (RE07)
SW Indian & Australian reg. (W of 135°E)	JTWC	nnS	01S
Australian reg. (E of 90°E, W of 160°E)	BOM	nnU	08U
Australian reg. & S Pacific (E of 135°E)	JTWC	nnP	04P
S Pacific (E of 160°E)	FMS	nnF	11F
S Atlantic	NRL, NHC^[d]	nnQ	01Q
S Atlantic	UKMet	nnT^[e]	02T
Notes: ^ Although the NHC does not append any suffix to TC numbers of North Atlantic-basin cyclones, the ATCF-defined suffix L is explicitly appended to them by JTWC and non-US-based weather services like UKMet, to avoid ambiguity with numbers from other warning centers tracking other basins. (The L suffix is explicitly used, however, by NHC for other non-cyclonic systems in N Atlantic, like invests.) ^ yy indicates the last two digits of a year and is often omitted for non-English usages. The prefix T is only used for the best track data and technical reports by JMA.^[4]^[5] ^ MFR assigns prefix RE only for its best track data pages.^[6] Historically, weather website Australia Severe Weather added prefix MFR- to MFR-tracked cyclone numbers (like "MFR-07") to distinguish them from JTWC numbers;^[7] this practice is no longer done. ^ Although the NHC does not issue warnings for the South Atlantic basin, it has tracked tropical systems there in the past, in coordination with the NRL's Marine Meteorological Division.^[8] ^ Although UKMet does not issue warnings for the South Atlantic basin, it does assign suffix T to it since 2004, but only for cyclones without US track data.^[7]^[9]

Hope this clears things up. SilSinn9821 (talk) 18:56, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Office of the Federal Coordinator for Meteorological Services and Supporting Research (May 2017). National Hurricane Operations Plan (PDF) (Report). National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. pp. 26–28. Retrieved October 14, 2018.
^ United States Naval Research Laboratory, Marine Meteorology Division (2010-06-08). "Best Track/Objective Aid/Wind Radii Format". Monterey: United States Navy. Retrieved 2018-10-15.
^ "Tropical Cyclone Names". Met Office (United Kingdom Meteorological Office). Retrieved 17 October 2018.
^ "RSMC Tokyo - Typhoon Center". Japan Meteorological Agency. Retrieved 19 October 2018.
^ "過去の台風資料" (in Japanese). Japan Meteorological Agency. Retrieved 19 October 2018.
^ "Saisons cycloniques archivées" (in French). Météo-France La Réunion.
^ ^a ^b "Monthly Global Tropical Cyclone Summary March 2004". Australia Severe Weather.
^ "Rare Tropical Cyclone Forms Off Brazil". EarthWeek. Retrieved 18 October 2018.
^ "Observed and forecast tracks: southern hemisphere 2016-17". Met Office (United Kingdom Meteorological Office). Retrieved 17 October 2018.

I agree, I think the "why" or reasons why the number range is limited to 90-99 should be included in the article/entry.

And as for avoiding confusion with other storm nomenclature, I think there'd be more confusion since there are years where there are multiple invest labels that are identical because they go through the 90-99 range several times. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 16:24, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I can speak to the rotating lists and why we used 90s. Those are artifacts of the ATCF. We couldn't afford to completely redesign the ATCF database nor did we want to ruin upstream and downstream software, so we assigned 90-99 as pre-TCs or "INVEST" (short for investigation area), rotated the numbers since we counted on less than 10 at a time in each basin. I recall picking 90-99 because that set was as far away from real TC numbers (01-49) as we could get without hitting three digits. Yes the 90s rotate, but they are also archived thanks to two NHC programmers. The INVEST archive has its own convention where the "9" is replace by "A" for the first instance, "B" for the second, etc. Anyway, thanks to all of you for what you do. Use this information if you think it relevant. I just saw the question about "why", and I'm likely the only person who knows the answer to that one :) Atcfcm (talk) 23:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article Class

I have worked on the article and I think it has scraped Start Class. So I have upped its rating... feel free to change. User:Itfc+canes=me ^Talk ^{Contributions} 15:23, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Needs references, better structure, and organization. I'm inclined to downgrade it to Stub-class, but I'll leave it at Start. –Juliancolton ^Happy ^Holidays 15:37, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is borderline between Stub and Start. Best to leave it as start, since improvements are being made. Good luck finding any more references though. Invests are mainly for the internal use of tropical cyclone warning centers, and are a byproduct of running tropical cyclone guidance on tropical disturbances within the ATCF system. Thegreatdr (talk) 18:53, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Same thing twice in the article

"Invests are designated by three separate forecast centers: the National Hurricane Center, Central Pacific Hurricane Center and Joint Typhoon Warning Center. The designation of a system as an invest does not necessarily correspond to any particular likelihood of development of the system into a tropical cyclone." This sentence comes out from the heading and from the subsecton Designation. Can we change this? Weatherlover819 (talk) 10:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leads are supposed to be summaries of the article below. This can lead to repetition. Thegreatdr (talk) 04:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just the FAQs, ma'am

New NHC link within their FAQ talking about invests. Thegreatdr (talk) 15:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suffixes

Uncommon suffixes are not standardized (film at 11). Various sources report either as Invest 90SL or Invest 90Q, according to respectively NHC or NRL, the current unpleasantness off the coast of Brazil. ElPeste (talk) 03:39, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is no standardized letter for the South Atlantic, investwise. Thegreatdr (talk) 17:17, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does anybody know what suffix is used for JTWC-tracked invests (or even TCs for that matter) originating in the Southwest Indian Ocean (those officially monitored/named by Meteo-France and Madagascar), as opposed to those forming west of Australia but still within Australian/Indonesian area of responsibility (the S suffix)? SilSinn9821 (talk) 19:04, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Its the S.Jason Rees (talk) 23:18, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stub-ness

After all the additions and reorganizations I made here, does this article still need to be marked as a stub? SilSinn9821 (talk) 04:51, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rotation section and parentheses

The rotation section contains a number of long parenthetical stuff (including semicolons). Should be broken up into more manageable sentences to read more smoothly. 173.90.75.20 (talk) 13:40, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Invest 99-L" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Invest 99-L has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 17 § Invest 99-L until a consensus is reached. Jasper Deng (talk) 19:05, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Invest 98L" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Invest 98L has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 17 § Invest 98L until a consensus is reached. Jasper Deng (talk) 19:05, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Invest 91-L" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Invest 91-L has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 17 § Invest 91-L until a consensus is reached. Jasper Deng (talk) 19:06, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[4] Although the NHC does not append any suffix to TC numbers of North Atlantic-basin cyclones, the ATCF-defined suffix L is explicitly appended to them by JTWC and non-US-based weather services like UKMet, to avoid ambiguity with numbers from other warning centers tracking other basins. (The L suffix is explicitly used, however, by NHC for other non-cyclonic systems in N Atlantic, like invests.)

[7] yy indicates the last two digits of a year and is often omitted for non-English usages. The prefix T is only used for the best track data and technical reports by JMA.^[4]^[5]

[10] MFR assigns prefix RE only for its best track data pages.^[6] Historically, weather website Australia Severe Weather added prefix MFR- to MFR-tracked cyclone numbers (like "MFR-07") to distinguish them from JTWC numbers;^[7] this practice is no longer done.

[12] Although the NHC does not issue warnings for the South Atlantic basin, it has tracked tropical systems there in the past, in coordination with the NRL's Marine Meteorological Division.^[8]

[14] Although UKMet does not issue warnings for the South Atlantic basin, it does assign suffix T to it since 2004, but only for cyclones without US track data.^[7]^[9]

[OFCM_NHOP-1] Office of the Federal Coordinator for Meteorological Services and Supporting Research (May 2017). National Hurricane Operations Plan (PDF) (Report). National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. pp. 26–28. Retrieved October 14, 2018.

[ATCF_Format-2] United States Naval Research Laboratory, Marine Meteorology Division (2010-06-08). "Best Track/Objective Aid/Wind Radii Format". Monterey: United States Navy. Retrieved 2018-10-15.

[UKMet-3] "Tropical Cyclone Names". Met Office (United Kingdom Meteorological Office). Retrieved 17 October 2018.

[JMA_Eng-5] "RSMC Tokyo - Typhoon Center". Japan Meteorological Agency. Retrieved 19 October 2018.

[JMA_Jpn-6] "過去の台風資料" (in Japanese). Japan Meteorological Agency. Retrieved 19 October 2018.

[MFR-RE-8] "Saisons cycloniques archivées" (in French). Météo-France La Réunion.

[ASW_032004-9] "Monthly Global Tropical Cyclone Summary March 2004". Australia Severe Weather.

[EarthWeekBrazilCyclone-11] "Rare Tropical Cyclone Forms Off Brazil". EarthWeek. Retrieved 18 October 2018.

[UKMet_SH2016-17-13] "Observed and forecast tracks: southern hemisphere 2016-17". Met Office (United Kingdom Meteorological Office). Retrieved 17 October 2018.

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