Talk:Gigha/GA1

Gigha/GA1
Scottish Gaelic name	Gioghaⓘ
Old Norse name	Gudøy and other variants
Meaning of name	Old Norse, probably "God's island" or "good island"
Location
	Gigha/GA1 Gigha/GA1 shown within Scotland
OS grid reference	NR647498
Coordinates	55°41′N 5°45′W / 55.68°N 5.75°W
Physical geography
Island group	Islay
Area	1,395 ha
Area rank	41
Highest elevation	Creag Bhàn 100 m
Administration
Council area	Argyll and Bute
Country	Scotland
Sovereign state	United Kingdom
Demographics
Population	110
Population rank	43
Largest settlement	Ardminish
References

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Starting GA review.Pyrotec (talk) 22:23, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your attention. Initial replies below. Ben Mac Dui 14:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

This article has the makings of a good GA. It is readable and wide ranging. However, there are a few minor problems that need resolving first.

The Info box which is non-compliant in respect of WP:Verify. Lumping together a few references at the bottom does not constitute in-line citations / verification.

Goodness – we’ve got about a ten GAs and no-one has ever queried this before – it may stand out as there are usually only 3 or 4. If you know the sources well it is pretty clear which are used for which.

The Ordnance Survey is the reference for the OS co-ordinates and highest point.

Mac an Tailleir’s work concerns Gaelic place names

The Orkneyinga Saga specifies Norse place names– see also Wikipedia:WikiProject Scottish Islands/Orkneyinga Saga.

General Register Office for Scotland is a census analysis and specifies the population in 2001.

Haswell-Smith provides a second map and specifies everything else including ranking tables (with updates and modifications at Wikipedia:WikiProject Scottish Islands/Populated Islands and Wikipedia:WikiProject Scottish Islands/Islands by area)

We don’t usually use Keay in the infobox at all unless H-Smith forgot to include something. I’ll check on this later.

It would be a bit of clutter to have a ref-marker for H-Smith for six or seven entries, although I can do that if you want.

You may not think it is relevant but I note that WP:UK geo’s FAs such as Altrincham, Bath, Birchington-on-Sea don’t have any references at all in the infobox!

Note 4 does not provide a citation for anything in particular.

See Orkneyinga saga above.

Grimble, p45 does not state precisely whether the offer was accepted, but I don't believe that Note 25 is an accurate interpretation of what Grimble says - it appears to be diametrically the opposite of what is implied.

Hmm – I don’t have Grimble and this source states "Donald McNeil descendant of John Og acquired Colonsay and Oronsay from the Duke of Argyll in 1700 in exchange for Crerar. This line then went onto buy the lands of Gigha in 1780 that had been repurchased by Hector of the Taynish line from Campbell of Cawdor in the late 16th century.” I fear you are right - I’ll do some more checking.

The web link in Note 29 does not link to the cited article.

Fixed

Note 35, provides confirmation about a number of awards, it does not provide a citation for the statement of ownership; and the whole sentence could, uncharitably, be challenged as advertising (WP:SPAM), the words used to describe this venture and the creation of red-link article link are possibly unfortunate.

True enough, and fixed.

These are (possibly) "technical errors" in the article, however the article as a whole is of GA standard. I'm therefore putting the review On Hold so that these points can be addressed.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

A wide ranging article covering the history (etc) of Gigha

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
Info box is non-compliant at present

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Pyrotec (talk) 00:11, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Responses

Thanks for your replies above. These are "storms in tea cups", but:

I'm not used to seeing Info boxes with a line of references at the bottom, it looks non-complaint to me. I'm suggesting that the references that are already in this Info box be made in-line citations like the Info box in this article - Hebden, North Yorkshire - it only has one in-line citation and that is for Population. Is it possible to do this without undue effort? P.S. I did the GA review on Prehistoric Orkney for you last September, but it does not have an Info box.

See below for example of how it might look. I don't know why the OS and population not coming out right. I'm not getting the Hebden logic - if it only has one reference surely it is even less compliant than the current Gigha one? Ben Mac Dui 09:37, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ Mac An Taillier
^ Haswell-Smith (2004) pp. 502–03. Modified to include bridged islands.
^ ^a ^b Area and population ranks: there are c. 300 islands over 20 ha in extent and 93 permanently inhabited islands were listed in the 2011 census.
^ ^a ^b General Register Office for Scotland (2003)
^ Infobox source is Haswell-Smith (2004) pp. 37–41 unless otherwise stated.

Tweaked per your suggestion plus using an "unless otherwise stated" reference at the bottom. I don't think it matters that several of them have multiple references. This also eliminates the Orkneyinga Saga issue - I don't have a copy I'm sorry to say. I clearly must get one if this problem is not to be repeated.Ben Mac Dui 13:20, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have a different copy of the Orkneyinga Saga, I have the Pálsson and Edwards (1981) Penguin classic version which is based on the 1978 Hogarth Press edition. Sorry, but quoting a book without a page number (or in this case a chapter number / Genealogy / Glossary) does not provide an adequate WP:Verify of anything, especially if its not linked to anything in particular (apart from the Info box). From a process of elimination I could work out that in was not intended to verify the OS coordinates and/or the 2001 population and/or the Local Authority; but I am still unsure what it is being quoted. The names Gigha, Guðey and Gjáey do not appear in the Pálsson and Edwards version. Re-looking at your reply and the link to Wikipedia:WikiProject Scottish Islands/Orkneyinga Saga, it appears to be an unstated use of the maps in the Joseph Anderson's edition that is being referenced (if it is, then specifically say so). The Pálsson and Edwards edition has only three maps: Orkney and Caithness, The Faroes - West Norway - British Isles, and Shetland; and the "GB" map is too small to name Gigha. Do you really think that this "uncertainty" is compliant with WP:Verify?

Not at all - see above. Ben Mac Dui 13:21, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What I think is the relevant quote in Grimble (P. 45) states:
" The astonishment of Angus of Islay may be imagined, and also his sense of relief when Campbell of Cawdor castle, a junior cousin of the Earl of Argyll, made friendly overtures to him. Campbell offered to purchase some lands in the isle of Gigha, which lies between Islay and the Mull of Kintyre. No doubt this helped to defray the expenses when Angus was commanded to travel to Edinburgh with Lachlan of Duart in 1591, to face the King. One of them had escaped from trial on the gravest of capital charges, yet both were imprisoned on their arrival as though their crimes were equal. They were released only upon finding security.

Apologies - the pre-existing text was clearly in error. This has now been fixed.

I'm happy to sign off the other two points - a broken link and (possibly) over-enthusiasm.

Pyrotec (talk) 20:52, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks, I'm awarding GA. Congratulations on having produced a Good Article.Pyrotec (talk) 17:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[MacanT2-1] Mac An Taillier

[H2-2] Haswell-Smith (2004) pp. 502–03. Modified to include bridged islands.

[RankNote-3] Area and population ranks: there are c. 300 islands over 20 ha in extent and 93 permanently inhabited islands were listed in the 2011 census.

[Census-4] General Register Office for Scotland (2003)

[5] Infobox source is Haswell-Smith (2004) pp. 37–41 unless otherwise stated.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]