Talk:LNER Class A4 4468 Mallard/Archive 1

Archive 1

Last update - change of build date from 1938 to 1930s?

I'm not sure of the reason, but a user (bigjimr) recently edited this article to give a general decade, rather than a specific year, for the build date of Mallard. There is a photograph of the actual builder's plate showing the locomotive was built in 1938. Shall we revert to the previous edit, or am I missing something here? Zzrbiker 05:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

There being advice to the contrary, I've reverted to the exact year of build. Zzrbiker 22:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Indicator diagram

Do we really mean "The indicator diagrams on the dynamometer car traced a momentary maximum of 126 mph"? As I understand it, an indicator diagram is a record of pressure against volume for a steam engine, and nothing to do with the locomotive's speed (see indicator diagram). Perhaps tachometer or speedometer is better? (If "indicator diagram" really is the right term, it shouldn't link to the page for the P-V type.)
Greg 14:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that a separate dynamometer car was used for the record-breaking run, which in the case of the LNER included equipment designed to accurately measure actual speed. As far as I'm aware, this is plotted on a paper chart against other variables (such as load, gradient, drawbar pull) etc. Zzrbiker 14:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure -- I saw the dynamometer car at the NRM recently in fact :) But the terminology "indicator diagram" seems inconsistent with the wiki page indicator diagram as the thing referred to there doesn't measure speed. Greg 22:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I've done a little extra reading[[1]] [[2]] - indicator diagrams are produced by machinery mounted on the locomotive itself, not by the dynamometer car. The indicator diagram readings on the locomotive were read by testing staff on the locomotive itself and were conveyed back to staff in the dynamometer car by telephone/intercom. The indicator diagram from the locomotive itself is not used to measure speed, so yes, perhaps we should change "indicator diagram" to "dynamometer car diagram", "dynamometer chart" or something more appropriate. Zzrbiker 03:03, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Interesting pages. The first of your links shows that a calibrated wheel is lowered from the dynamometer car for the purpose of making speed measurements. I've altered the text to remove the reference to the indicator diagrams. Greg 19:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

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1- An indicator diagram measures pressure according to volumina / stroke position. It is used to adjust and check the control elements (valves etc.) of the engine. I.e. if valves and levers and all the fine mechanics are calibrated and adjusted well after reparations. This allows a calculation to the ectual machine power and to check if really everything is allright with a loco.
2- The measuring wheel in a separate car is a cylindric wheel with calibrated (very exactly measured) diameter (cylindric, which is NOT the case on normal car wheels which have conical wheels for the "sinus run" to stabilize the railway run). Also temperature etc. is monitored for a re-calculation of exact diameter and lengths to calculate the speed with the highest accuracy possible. Pls. excuse any bad english. 77.11.224.139 09:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

1948 Locomotive Exchange Trials

I've added a section of Mallard's participation in the 1948 trials, an overlooked episode in the locomotive's career. I'll be adding a page on the trials and other participants in due course. I've also amended the restoration period to reflect the three year certificate the NRM got for Mallard. Accurate dates for her creation and withdrawal have been added too from the relevant cited books. Steel city ady 10:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Getting moved

It is getting moved to Germany next year 86.10.230.181 (talk) 21:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Could anybody be so kind to move the Mallard pic to commons? THX BerndB 23:17, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup. THX. BerndB —Preceding undated comment added 16:13, 26 August 2007 (UTC).

See File:092-SFEC-YORK-20070827.JPG already at commons... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.236.248.22 (talk) 10:08, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Postal Pullman

Mallard pulled a special train, Postal Pullman, on one day in the late 1980s from London to Banbury, due to the launch of a set of Royal Mail stamps. Mallard then went on with just its support coach to Birmingham while the train went back to London diesel-hauled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.208.43 (talk) 15:51, 8 February 2011 (UTC) .

Exchange Trials

< At Hook there were adverse signals, causing Mallard to slow to a crawl. Even so, by Axminster, Mallard had reached 82 miles per hour. Salisbury was reached in 108 minutes and 28 seconds >

Axminster is far to the west of (i.e. beyond, on this run) Salisbury; is somewhere else meant in the above paragraph, which doesn't make a lot of sense as it stands? 86.171.186.193 (talk) 21:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Allen, Cecil J. (1949). "Chapter 10 - 1948: Waterloo-Exeter". The Locomotive Exchanges. London: Ian Allan. 63/249/60/549. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

Reading this chapter I would say that the article contains verifiable facts, but presented in the wrong order. Allen does state "then came a lengthy crawl to a dead stand for adverse signals at Hook" (Allen 1949, p. 99); later in the same paragraph "Salisbury was reached in 108 min. 28 sec." (Allen 1949, p. 99) there is then info about some other runs, then a table of Salisbury-Exeter timings on p. 100, then "because of the Hook delay there was a late start from Salisbury" (Allen 1949, p. 100) and "past Axminster, with a top speed of 82 m.p.h. (Allen 1949, p. 100). We just need to rearrange the sentences. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:43, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

The Trio

Missing from the article and the comments etc. is any reference to the spirit of the times.

As the 1930s drew to a close it was clear that another war with Germany was on the horizon and horrific memories of the earlier WW1 still very fresh.

For a number of years the Nazi government had been pouring vast sums of money into transport and the necessary infrastructure. The best known of these is probably the new Autobahns and railways. New aircraft and warships were being shown in the newsreel footages, the new weapons of warfare had been used and clearly demonstrated during the Spanish Civil War. All British citizens had been issued with gas masks and bomb shelters being built.

Against this depressing background Driver Duddington and Fireman Bray were to gain a whole new world speed record becoming the most unlikely but typical British heroes. As the news of the record run was announced that night over the British Home Service Channel, in the pubs there was many a cheer raised and an extra pint drunk to the trio, Duddington, Bray and the "Mallard".

If the American Jesse Owens had put the German superman in his place, so had the British working men and "Mallard". It was to be a considerable morale raiser at a time when such was badly needed.

In an interview given in the 1950s, which may still exist in the BBC sound archive, Joe Duddington reckoned that the "Mallard" could have been driven faster. We shall now never know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.154 (talk) 15:38, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

This seems to be personal opinion and WP:OR; do you have any reliable sources for these claims? --Redrose64 (talk) 17:18, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if 212.93.199.154 has any sources, but I do know that Don Hale's book "Mallard - How the Blue Streak broke the World Speed Record" makes a similar assertion. I've misplaced my copy right now, but when I dig it out I shall look up the relevant parts for scrutiny here. For the LNER at least, there certainly was an element of "getting one over" on the Germans. 82.2.76.69 (talk) 16:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

The reason why Duddington thought the Mallard could have gone faster may have had nothing to do with its technical design and performance. He simply may not have had the nerve to go faster. Later, he may have felt more confident and was willing to try again. Akld guy (talk) 09:42, 9 January 2017 (UTC)