Talk:Liege & Lief/Archive 1

Archive 1

/Archive 2

Untitled

The most influential folk rock album of all time. Probably class GA but I'm not 100% clear how to nominate Megamanic 06:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Title

"Liege and Lief" means "loyal and ready"

I disgaree. "Liege" means loyalty or duty (liegeman, etc). "Lief" means "desire". (I would lief be gone from here). So it's a contrast between duty and pleasure, loyalty and desire. Ogg 13:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I was under the impression that the term "liege" refers to a lord or sovereign, whereas "lief" originates from the Dutch word meaning girlfriend or sweetheart. In which case, the title of the album means something like "the lord and his lady," or "the lord and his sweetheart," which would make sense given the subjects covered by some of the songs on the album. For example, Lord Arnold and his wife in Matty Groves. John1701 00:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

As per the OED - liege "The characteristic epithet of persons in the relation of feudal superior and vassal"; " b. Of the vassal: Bound to render feudal service and allegiance" "c. transf. of persons in other relationships: Entitled and bound to mutual fidelity. Obs. " as an adjective and strictly vassal/superior as a noun. Lief "1. Beloved, dear, agreeable, acceptable, precious. Also lief and dear. a. In attrib. use. Obs. exc. arch. " with other shades expressing desire and " {dag}2. Desirous, wishful, willing, glad. Const. of, to with inf. Obs."; "4. absol. a. (When used in addressing a superior = Sir! Sire! Lord!) Obs. "; "b. quasi-n. A beloved, a dear one; a friend, sweetheart, mistress; occas. a wife. Similarly in the compar., one who is dearer. Obs. "; "B. adv. Dearly, gladly, willingly. Chiefly with would, pa. subj. (occas. Sc. with omission of would). Also in as lief (as), the liefer; lief I were = I would gladly be."

So, various different interpretations possible, though I'd say the non-obsolete sense, and the one most come down to, is that it's something to do with the interplay of loyalty and desire, as Ogg suggsts. Original research of course, but those re the most common definitions. 129.67.158.148 (talk) 17:19, 25 November 2009 (UTC)Helle

In 1969, FC were young hippies (just a bit older than I was when I first heard this on WBCN in early 1970 in Boston, MA, USA)! I assure you that "desire", that is to say, "lust", was in the air. (Richard Thompson later alluded to this in the lyrics of "Bee's Wing".) I've always imagined FC giggling over Janet rushing off to Carter Hall as soon as she hears that she can "lose her maidenhead" there. Acwilson9 (talk) 22:36, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Henry VI, Part 2? Gloucester, in Act III, Scene 1, says:

"And you, my sovereign lady, with the rest,

Causeless have laid disgraces on my head,

And with your best endeavour have stirr'd up

My liefest liege to be mine enemy"

Just coincidence? Martinevans123 (talk) 00:27, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

BBC Radio 2 vote

Radio 2 listeners actually voted Liege and Lief to be the "most important folk album of all time," not the "Best Folk Album Ever". John1701 00:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

2007 Deluxe Edition

A "Deluxe Edition" of the album was also released in 2007, with a second disc featuring some BBC sessions as well as studio out-takes. Perhaps some information about this release should be incorporated into the article as well? John1701 01:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Medieval

The lead talks of a "selection of folk/medieval musical and lyrical ballads". I would question whether there was anything truly medieval on the album. Some of the folk songs and tunes might have origins in the medieval period, but the versions included on the album all seem to be much later. Bluewave (talk) 21:36, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree, even the earliest tracks (Tam Lin, Matty Groves, Reynardine) cannot be dated to prior to the 16th century, so "medieval" must be stretching it a bit. Also, there is a lot of apparent personal opinion in the lead, which should be sourced or go. Rodhullandemu 22:04, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I had a go at some rewording, but if anyone wants to do better, they are welcome to revert me! I took out the mention of medieval music, which just looks wrong (Reynardine, for instance, sounds a bit medieval but that version probably owes more to Bert Lloyd than to anyone in medieval times!). Also the bit about "the songs of love and war are tragic and in a rustic setting" doesn't really fit with the album: there's very little about war on the album and, although love is arguable a theme in some of the songs, they are not really "songs of love". Bluewave (talk) 11:25, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Liege & Lief/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

* Y All the start class criteria Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details Y At least one section of prose (excluding the lead section) Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians Y Categorisation at least by artist and year Y A casual reader should learn something about the album. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 12:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 21:59, 29 April 2016 (UTC)