User talk:Martinevans123

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Rafael - Ressurreição de Cristo (detalhe - anjo).jpg
Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialogue, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.

Martin, As you archive so regularly (unlike some editors ...) I thought that this would
a) Brighten up your page, and
b) Add a serious tone amidst all the hilarity.
All the best to you and yours –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 11:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. A lovely picture. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
I have made a little seasonal update - hope you don't mind! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Not at all. The snow has almost vanished.
A Christian feast commemorating the resurrection of Christ; the first Sunday following the full moon that occurs on or next after the vernal equinox, neither earlier than March 22 nor later than April 25.
I hate this BST ... why can't we stick with good old GMT? (... it follows the sun after all)
Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard – 10:27, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
now, I ask you, what kind of alphabetical (or significance) order is that?!!
Yours, aye John Lemon
Have always loved that record. Good compilation of photographs ... who is the geezer in the middle — at 1 min 32 secs? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
For some reason, he always reminded me of Nixon!
Oh! Of course. I knew that really –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Wiki Jukebox[edit]

... my own personal permanent fixture tribute...
Please donate generously (.... and add whatever you like!!):
  1. that old Fifth Beatle, again (sigh)
  2. just the 7 inches this time, Grace, sorry
  3. my own beautiful laundrette George Michael tribute (suitably low-grade video, yes!!) [1]
  4. hey sugar... do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do...
  5. a bit of a hit, apparently... (Leo gets the velvet treatment)
  6. Not the early one, That you can wish upon, Not the northern one, That guides in the sailors
  7. ... a prisoner of the white lines
  8. ... [2] what a classic
  9. ... [3] what a ridiculous suit
  10. ... [4] a charmingly light and deft chamber piece
  11. ... [5] ... then peace will guide the planets and love will steer the stars
  12. ... jus' coz... (most favouritist Jankel guitar solo(s) evva evva) (and even more brillianter live)!!
  13. ... an incessant driving backbeat, jazz syncopated piano (mmmm, those trills), sly vocal, soaring blues harp... just funk bliss ... and news just in: [6]
  14. ... utterly stupendous guitar solo
  15. ... einige gute Ratschläge für Kinder von heute...]]
  16. ... [7]
  17. ... get daaaaaarn!! a classic
  18. ... and in similar vein
  19. ... cheers, Rambler! sheessh!! line 'em up, dude: [8], [9], [10]
  20. ... Jolly New Year!!
  21. ... 1975, top of their game, just wonderful!
  22. ... [11] ... and a classic interpretation
  23. ... and keeping it Viv, one hell of a region...
  24. ... 'Cause I've seen some hot hot blazes, Come down to smoke and ash
  25. ... There was spring along the ditches
  26. ... how Mystery Train should be played: [12] .. a masterclass from that 70s partnership made in rockabilly heaven.
  27. ... The one-shot deal don't matter
  28. .. quintessentially English!! such a great album...
  29. ... RIP Horace Silver ... Jazz Omkring Midnight Denmark TV 1968 .... some guy called Cobham on drums, lol
  30. ... comes close to capturing visually the density of Dylan's imagery....
  31. ... thanks for reminding me, Paley, me' ol' china ... rescued from the archives!!
  32. ... "Lord, if it was not for bad edits, I wouldn't make no edits at all" ....
  33. ... some therapeutic squeals ...
  34. ... awesome from Georgie and Stevie, just amazing ...
  35. ... Oh! Oh! Oh-ho!! How it hurts... In the wardrobe of my soul, In the section labelled "shirts" ...
  36. ... We broke a case of proof 102 (original and best, pure grain vinyl) ....
  37. ... this one just for any Hillbillies who may be a-watchin'! (fnaaar, fnaaar). Sing-a-long now, y'all!! ...
  38. ... just tell him (what you want) ...
  39. ... R.I.P Jack .... "living beneath the volcano"
  40. ... spine-tingling song perfection in 3 and a half minutes ...
  41. .. Alleluia!... simply the best, so, so, wonderful ...
  42. ... fun and educational a tough combo to beat. MarnetteD|Talk 23:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
  43. .... "distant cousins, there's a limited supply...".!! ... way-to-go, Threeesie!
  44. .... ain't got time for that now... Parliament- Funkadelic's Bernie Worrell on keyboards.....
  45. .... there is a secret ... I think

Blocks all round?[edit]

"They've got womanly breasts under pale mauve vests,
Shoes like dead pigs' noses,
Cornflake packet jacket, catalogue trousers,
A mouth what never closes."
Please, Mr. Admin-robot, don't be a Blockhead.
Oi! Oi! ... Their shapeless haircuts don't enhance, Their ghastly patterned shirts.. (allegedly)

"You babes talk about your madison shoes We've got a thing we call the madison blues"

  • What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back? A stick!
  • I couldn't quite remember how to throw a boomerang, but eventually it came back to me.Boing
  • The other day I held the door open for a clown. I thought it was a nice jester.clown

With apologies to Bob Dylan[edit]

Giving credit, where credit is due
Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 18:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Seven days, seven more days they’ll be comin’
We’ll be waiting at the stadium for them to arrive
Seven more days, all I gotta do is survive

Read more: ... [13]. Next Friday evening!
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 18:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Bob Bob Bob Bob Bob Bob Hafspajen (talk) 19:12, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes indeed, Gareth. Should be a humdinger. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Tyger, tyger, burning bright,
Down the fairway on the right;
What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame thy fearful long par three? - Blake (talk) 19:20, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Such talent! I mean you. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Somebody snached Elvy. Hafspajen (talk) 17:48, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
That was me, Hpj — my thread, my choice of opening image. I watched two very talented Swedish young ladies (sisters) on the Graham Norton Show last Friday; do you know them? — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 15:05, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
And so by way of "compensation"... here's the wonderful Eilert Pilarm. "omg" Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Somebody also snached the disguised plutonium. Hafspajen (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
After hearing Eilert, I admit I stole it and drank it all. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Tasted good Grape-Shot.jpg? Hafspajen (talk) 20:04, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Um, I think I'll try and send it back. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:08, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
UH,? Dunno. Maybe because of the Bad Hat Day? Hafspajen (talk) 19:08, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Because, EEng, I bastardised his Seven Days' lyrics. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 15:05, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

For you[edit]

Marmite.jpg The Marmite Award
llllllllllllllllllllllllloolllllllllllllllllllllllL Hafspajen (talk) 09:21, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
I must get painting again! ... or have word with Nathan: [14] Martinevans123 (talk) 12:19, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
  • marmite-artist-nathan???HUh? Hafspajen (talk) 16:44, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
I've always wanted to ask... is it true that they no longer use genuine mites in the manufacture of Marmite, and have switched to boll weevils instead? EEng (talk) 12:28, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
A vile and outrageous calumny! You'll be telling us all about Marmite's grocer's apostrophe next!! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:18, 2 February 2015 (UTC) ..... but it is now available in your local Chinese Traditional Healthfood Store as "Red Velvet Marmite". Yum.
You mean vile Calumet? EEng (talk) 14:01, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
"A common material for calumet pipe bowls is red pipestone or catlinite." Goodness me. Pipe bowls again! That might come in handy elsewhere.... Martinevans123 (talk) 14:08, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
Gosh... Culture has unexpected ramifications... Hafspajen (talk) 18:14, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
... love him or hate him. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:17, 2 February 2015 (UTC) Golden Girls!!


Made my evening. Thanks for that, hadn't heard. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:47, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for adding a sample! (and **** my computer/system/whatever for not being able to handle it). I wish we could add a sample of the legendary battle with Maynard and Clifford [15] where he's just so refreshingly understated and funny next to these virtuosi of baroque and of grace , particularly in his last four bars. Sorry for spamming you; needed to be shared. ---Sluzzelin talk 19:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Wow, not heard that for a while! How wonderful that is. From Dinah Jams (1954)? (I have nothing of hers, alas). Love how her phrasing isn't resolved with the backing rhythm until more than a minute in. That video montage is a bit random! But yeah superb playing from both. Thanks! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Random, yep, and that's the album. I like Ferguson here (though he just can't help his stratospheric self) and of course Brownie can never fail, but you're right: Dinah Washington .... sigh ---Sluzzelin talk 20:51, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, of course it's a three-way contest. To be honest it's a bit like having a bejewelled crown set with three sets of diamonds instead of just one! All a bit overpowering. Personally I'd settle for just Dinah and Terry. This is just bliss. It's like liquid all-star gold. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC) ... smash those vibes, Milt!!! .. and in case you missed it 1 hour 34 of 1967 magic (- assume BBC still owns the copyright, so can't post as external link)
(First of all, yes, the annoying randomness in the clip mainly has to do with the fact that Clifford Brown (of whom we only can fantasize what he might have sounded like becond 25) isn't pictured at all in the montage (the array does start out on the right foot, which makes the later randomness even more annoying). Thank you so much! No, I hadn't ever heard let alone viewed the 1967 gig (nor the wonderful Pennies, and you can't help but adore those 70s suits with Joe Pass etc, omg). I only listened to the first piece of the '67 thingy, and already am enchanted. Dizzy is one of the musicians I so regret never having seen live despite opportunities. As a teenager I had the lucky moment to watch Clark Terry in Lucerne. He also scatted, played an ever accelerating dialogue between trumpet (left hand) and flugelhorn (right hand), and he (charmingly) teased a member of the audience in the front row who had stuck her fingers in her ears in those rare occasions his horn screamed out loud, right in her face! (That audience member was my mother). I will listen to the rest after a night's rest. Thank you for your excellent contributions to music articles, Martin, and have a good night's rest too! ---Sluzzelin talk 00:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Stuart Maconie[edit]

I'm not being disruptive. Why are you trying to silence dissent? --Stuart Maconie's Dad (talk) 22:19, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Nor am I vandalising Wikipedia. Why are you lying? --Stuart Maconie's Dad (talk) 22:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Try not to libel living people. And try not to be abusive in your comments. If you do so again, you'll get blocked. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:23, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Why not invite your pals User:Brecht89one and User:EnergemDealer2415 over? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
LIAR LIAR ... OH, but I still love you... Goethe in the Roman Campagna (talk) 22:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
The things that one grows tired of—O, be sure
Pointer vs Quail, 1992?
They are only foolish artificial things!
Can a bird ever tire of having wings?
And I, so long as life and sense endure,
(Or brief be they!) shall nevermore inure
My heart to the recurrence of the springs,
Of gray dawns, the gracious evenings,
The infinite wheeling stars. A wonder pure
Must ever well within me to behold
Venus decline; or great Orion, whose belt
Is studded with three nails of burning gold,
Ascend the winter heaven. Who never felt
This wondering joy may yet be good or great:
But envy him not: he is not fortunate.
-- Robinson Jeffers, 1887 - 1962 Hafspajen (talk) 20:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC).

It is this, Alexander Bolonkin, Hafspajen (talk) 23:11, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Is it?!! That seems as likely as the connection between Kenneth Patchen and Vladimir Pasechnik. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:21, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

The Great Gambon[edit]

Hi M. I know edit summaries are so short that they can lead to misunderstanding so I just wanted to show you the paragraph from the source about the fact that MG is only retiring from stage work.

But Sir Michael said he has no plans to put his film and screen career on hold, he announced, amid glowing reviews for his work on hit polar drama Fortitude.

BTW I am watching Fortitude. It is a bit like Broadchurch in the frozen north. In fact if you ever watch it you might want to put on a sweater cause you can feel the chill right through your TV screen. Brrrr. Apologies for any offense in mt edit summary and cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 23:41, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

No worries. Many thanks for clarifying. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:22, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

"suck accusations"...[edit]

A raspberry fruit fool

Best typo of the year so far... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:17, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

...deserves a prize, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Mae'n brydgell ac mae'r brochgim stwd
Yn gimblo a gyrian yn y mhello:
Pob cólomrws yn féddabwd,
A'r hoch oma'n chwibruo. Hafspajen (talk) 10:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Cymerir bod och ett misstag kan vända sig till och översätta "Jabberwocky" eller andra dumheter dikter till andra språk, jag feddwl. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:06, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
WP:Responding to threats of harm EEng (talk) 12:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Don't worry, it's only stodgy Danish fare, not real HARM. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, another typo. I meant threats of ham. Did you check out Return to the Library of Babel? EEng (talk) 12:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Too much terapy is nood good
For real threats of ham, you need to contact another editor. .. it's on "my list"! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:16, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm pretty dam proud of Template:Ham, thank you very much. Drmies (talk) 15:32, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
C. S. Lewis would be proud of you, I'm sure. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:45, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Well, as I said elsewhere some time back... If it is, it's not very effective. EEng (talk) 13:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Ham therapy, anyone? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
We can all heartily thank Wikipedia for providing the material for Philomena Cunk's "Moments of Wonder" (not to mention Barry Shitpeas' more enlightened explanations). Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
This looks like [17] some kind of therapy, after all... Hafspajen (talk) 14:02, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Looks like Black Magic to me. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:14, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


Ah, how delightful, thanks. I can think of a few editors whose throats I'd like to ram some spikey cake down. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Demis Roussos[edit]

Thanks for your comment. I dedicate to you this song in Spanish "Morir al lado de mi amor" RIP Demis Roussos. werldwayd (talk) 19:02, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

What a vaguely threatening title! But thanks, that's very thoughtful of you. Well done with the DM singles. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:07, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
This is my personal most favourite song of his. It is a famous song he sang called "Because" in English. But he released the same with different lyrics "Mourir auprès de mon amour" in French and "Morir al lado de mi amor" in Spanish. Both French and Spanish roughly mean "to die near my love". Actually he was singing his own death. My love can be interpreted as an actual love or love for all those in the world who loved him. I have now also completed further chart positions for albums. I mean I may have missed some, but whatever I could find in Dutch, German, Spanish, French chart listingsetc. It is so difficult to come up with a definitive listing as he had so many releases sometimes intertwining with each other, plus using different titles in different countries. werldwayd (talk) 21:01, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm sure you've done an excellent job. Well done. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:03, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

A Valentine sheep[edit]

James Ward - A Border Leicester Ewe

--Hafspajen (talk) 14:28, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Awww, how cute. Martinevans123 (talk)

February 2015[edit]

Kiss me!!!!!!!!!!! ... progress at Arbcom reported to be as swift as ever.
Marty where are you? Kiisss me.

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GA Wid Lib[edit]

I've renominated Widener Library for GA. Since you've shown some recent interest in it, perhaps you'll take this on. Please, though, avoid the fate of so many GA reviews by clearly separating concerns related to the GA criteria from "extracurricular" concerns that can be addressed after the review is over. EEng (talk) 19:50, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I was hoping to escape such an onerous and perilous task! I will try and have a look in the next day or so. Let's hope I can make it shorter than this one. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:59, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I join you in that hope. EEng (talk) 20:14, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I can't help noticing that just about all the points raised at Talk:Widener Library/GA1 were satisfactorily addressed. I have read the whole of that review in detail and I regard it as having done about 90% of my work, of anyone's work, in a review. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:22, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


One Lili 2014.JPG especially for you, for "agree". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:50, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm sure this counts as "floral canvassing"! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Magnificent, - I stopped recording the vibrations ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:11, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
... the only kind you need. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Gloria with Psalm 150 in Hebrew also worked ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:32, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Wow, that s a great looking article. And that's a great looking picture! :) Martinevans123 (talk) 22:39, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! Never too late for a bit more love, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:54, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Father Brown[edit]

Thanks. I thought you had mixed Mrs McCarthy with Mrs McGuire from Grantchester which is no more than a Father Brown rip off. This is episode [18] is one of the best and similar to todays in being heart wrenching with some amusing moments. REVUpminster (talk) 19:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately I can't see Williams in anything without thinking of Jesse's Diets. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon[edit]

Whether you like it or not, this is the name of the article. i didn't name it with the manufacturer name. You deleted my edit and put back a redirect, which is wrong, because whenever possible, redirects should be avoided. If you dont like that manufacturer name appears, you could have done F-16 Fighting Falcon.--Arado (talk) 19:24, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, you could have done that too. It's not always necessary to give the full name of the article. If you think it adds to the clarity of the article it appears in, by all means use it. I don't think it does in this case. My likes or non-likes are irrelevant. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:25, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


feeelll ignored. SMirC-snowy.svg. You are cold

Sorry Hafs! Can't talk now - got a carrot in my face, a mouth full of coal and a dodgy hat. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Your hat suits you well. Hafspajen (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
"Et voilà! The cat has disappeared!"
Oh, it is probably just deisigiuise for Detective work. Hafspajen (talk) 17:59, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
):):):):):):):):):O:)Hafspajen (talk) 19:45, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Probably Last chance to educate yourself on topic. Hafspajen (talk) 14:10, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
A tragedy! Tears will flow. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:20, 20 February 2015 (UTC) .... but I strongly doubt it - consensus in very short supply over there, "bro".
Looks like a mess, isn't it... Hafspajen (talk) 15:29, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Candide Thovex Youtube videos[edit]

Hi, I am new to Wikipedia. I have been asked by Candide Thovex's management team to add historical information to his entry. I have included YouTube videos that illustrate historic moments from his career. In most cases they come from his official YouTube channel, his main sponsor (Quiksilver), or from the channels of the events which are referenced. So, in these cases they are about as valid a source as possible and the only sources available on the Internet. If you have any suggestions as to where I may find more valid sources, please let me know. Dave Mailman (talk) 16:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) Dave Mailman

Hi Dave. Thanks for your message. We have only your word for that. You may need to provide evidence that you have not breached the copyright of the material posted at YouTube, even if it has been posted by "his main sponsor". But even if you do, links to YouTube videos are still not liked at Wikipedia and may be removed at any time. Since you claim to be acting on behalf of "Thovex's management team", you will also need to read WP:Conflict of interest, as you may not be impartial. A tag might also need to be added to the article talk page to explain your position to other editors. I'll copy this exchange to you Talk Page, for the benefit of other editors. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:23, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Replying in numbered lists[edit]

Hi Martin, just a heads-up that you keep breaking the numbering at the Chopin talk page because you're prefixing your replies with ::: instead of #:: -- Gory details at Help:List#List basics. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 16:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks. Do I "keep breaking" it or have I just broken it twice? It's not intentional - I occasionally get it right. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:47, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
A better approach for you might be to just always do your best to get it wrong (since that seems easiest for you) and then the rest of us will just do the opposite -- sort of an anti-oracle you'd be. EEng (talk) 18:13, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
How kind. But I think I might feel trapped in my own Square of opposition, sob. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:19, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Ah, apologies. It's been broken several times, but I haven't been keeping track of who. Maybe you only "kept" doing it once :) --Stfg (talk) 18:11, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Please, don't sob, just follow "beautiful" example. Some would possibly not tolerate a ramp for handicapped, if it distorts the "beauty" of a building. I like this palace, "built" by ? (hidden in an urn, how fitting), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:13, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Haha. I must admit I was thinking exactly the same thing. Are we here to "make something beautiful" or to build a useful encyclopedia? But then I use lazy tags, so I'm probably far too lazy to appreciate real art. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:22, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Old jokes ;) - Who built the palace? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:29, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, all useful good points. Like User:Dr. Blofeld, I've got no particularly strong views. But I'm continually amazed that, while the project as whole seems 100% sold on infoboxes for bio articles in general, and for countless other types of article, it sees it as acceptable to make an exception for classical composers! I just see no logic there at all. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Generally I support infoboxes were there is real informational value, but I certainly don't see the point in identiboxes, they're even worse. If we must have an infobox personally I'd prefer it to be detailed with quality facts in them. At one point I remember trying to force an infobox on composer articles and User:Kleinzach and a few others at the classical project went nuts.. I gradually came around to the nice clean look on actors/composers with a simple photograph in Tim and Cassianto's articles.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Nuts?? Ah yes, they probably see them as nothing more than litter. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:50, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ... "Tim and Cassianto"? ... are they like Gilbert & George?
Yes, they were mad that anybody dare touch a composer article with an infobox. I got a serious talking to for adding one! This is why dear Gerda is brave for taking this on! Kleinzach in my experience generally though is not the easiest going chap in the world..♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:59, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
(ec 3 times) There's a discussion on composers, did you know? - I saw the wall in Berlin in the 1980s and thought that would stay for my life, did you know? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
It's a trio, SchroCat also ;) - I made them a template ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
How intriguing! I thought cats loved boxes. Martinevans123 (talk)
Also some dogs (pictured if you follow links) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

A blotstar for you[edit]

Barnstar of Humour.svg The Barnstar of Good Humor
This barnstar is awarded to Martinevans123 for blotting the Chopin talk page. Stfg (talk) 17:51, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, a bit busy right now, adjusting my Frank Spencer beret. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
No idea what blotting means exactly but what you did, lightening up the atmosphere, is worth hymnal music! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:02, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Blotting? I find the whole discussion a bit testing. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:56, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Le Sacre du Printemps (Pina Bausch Tanztheater, Wuppertal).jpg

If you have a bit of extra time, another test: compare to Talk:The Rite of Spring. I am biased and would be interested how an unbiased person reacts to it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:18, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, I remember now... running, screaming from the event. Quite a lengthy production. With many of the same players. And speeches. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
What left me speech-less today is the statement by an arb (who wasn't then) that eliminating Andy from these discussions "seemed to help with disruption in the area". - (looooong silence) - I became a member of freedom of speech when I left classical music. - Opera is a different story, I left but joined again this year. All Verdi operas have an infobox, most new operas, most new performers, - a pleasure to watch. Did you know that Andy installed a self portrait when he helped to design {{infobox opera}} (example 4) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:52, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Carl Spitzweg 039.jpg
Hahaha. Poor Andy! Gerda you have such wisdom. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
sometimes --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
"Oooh ..." I'm trying to remember in which episode that beret ended up with a chicken on its spike? --Stfg (talk) 20:06, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
omg "Hahahahahahahahahahaha" "Edith, we are in enough trouble"Martinevans123 (talk) 20:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC) (...Chevalier's 1929 "Louise" like you've never heard it!)
{{{{{1}}}}} Marty you are domed. Hafspajen (talk) 16:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
... "lurching mechanical noises infrequently keeping a vague beat".
Pamje nga Desivojca.jpg
enjoy some silence filled with thanks --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Your Special Wikiroom delivery[edit]

Time for a spell as a wiki-hermit, I think....
Ah! Yet another day at the salon.
  • Your Special Wikiroom delivery Hafspajen (talk) 23:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Jolly good, Herm Hafspajen (talk) 23:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Hans Holbein the Younger[edit]

We being on the same side here would be nice. Did you notice the candlid lit scenes in Wolf Hall. Wow. Ceoil (talk) 23:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Haha, what a good guess. I added a comment about them in the article. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Well, aparently the candlit shots were very expensive, but didnt draw in sufficient viewers, comprared to say the Tudors soap. Frankly I loved Wolf Hall, as good as the Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy eps; so beutifuly shot. Ceoil (talk) 00:14, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I really don't know why they should have been any more expensive. I thought it was just a directorial decision. I found it quite natural and I'm not sure I even noticed it until they were discussing it with Kirsty Wark after the last episode. Another feature was the portable camera (apparently) But, yes it was beautifully shot. His wife did the music - Rylance was on Desert Island Discs two weeks ago. It seems one of their daughters died on the flight back to UK. How tragic is that. He's a great actor. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
he really is. Re those shots; think Barry Lyndon x about 5! Ceoil (talk) 03:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Anyway, thanks for the edits; appreciated. Ceoil (talk) 09:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
It's a wonderfully strong portrait. (Although that "Note: Strong, 276" is a bit cryptic!?) Did you see Waldemar Januszczak on Holbein for BBC's The Culture Show? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I did not, but thankfully the BBC website never disappoints. "In our time" does it for me. I did notice that a great many shots directly referenced his paintings. Joy. I'm guessing Wolf hall might be in the states in a week or two, thnking a DYK might be in order, though I normally shy away from that. You up? Ceoil (talk) 13:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
"Did you know, did you schknow." We'd have to battle that lunatic "Gage Library" over an outrageously inappropriate pun-laden hook. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I can out pun any man. Even EE. Ceoil (talk) 21:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Compared to me you are a rank punter. EEng (talk) 21:58, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
punk ranter, surely?? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Withdraws talons
Sounds like puny girls pigtails fighting tlk to me. Ceoil (talk) 22:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, like you'd know puny tlk if you heard it. EEng (talk) 22:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Now, now, ladies! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Martin, he f&*g started it. Fond as I am of EE, its no wonder wiki, and actually the world, is the going to hell in ragged handbag. I feel this is that grave. Hrmpt. Ceoil (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
This is the BBC World Service. It's going to hell on a sled. EEng (talk) 23:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Well, I could have told you that 20 years ago.[19]. But nobody listens to me, mumble. Whatever, you fabulous bastard. Ceoil (talk) 23:14, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Jihadi John[edit]

The Provoked Wife ... note use of fashionable West London Club... a .- Problem play
eselköpfigen Bottom

When the Lone Ranger rides off into the sunset, someone will inevitably ask Who was that masked man? In the case of Jihadi John, it was some loser from London who thought that it was OK to kill unarmed civilians. It is interesting that UK government officials told the media off the record that Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary was a "key suspect", even though this may be wrong.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:33, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Phew, off the record, eh? That was lucky. But yes, very curious my dear Ianto. Maybe he was from downtown Indianapolis. Maybe he was from Bloomfield, Belfast. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
We don't really know much at all, due to the professional editing of the IS videos. Some people have suggested that the voice of Jihadi John is dubbed, and in any case we never see the bragging man actually decapitate the victims, as happens in some videos.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
You are totally right. Two essential points that no-one ever seems to mention. Jihadi John is a grim cult figure. Emwazi is some sad London lad who hit his head on the metal goalposts. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it has been suggested that Henry VIII of England developed decapitational tendencies after an incident in January 1536 when he was thrown from his horse and spent some time unconscious.[20] Then again, some people would be capable of doing this anyway.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Blimey! And I just thought he composed Greensleeves. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC) ... "... once sporty and generous, became cruel, vicious and paranoid, his subjects began talking about him in a new way, and the turnover of his wives speeded up." (... sounds like some editors I know) "Does my 28 stone look big in this?"
It is also remarkable that BBC News claimed a scoop on this, as The Washington Post was the first to name Emwazi.[21]--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
You see, you just can't trust these Yanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I was watching BBC News Channel on Thursday, and they were completely confident in claiming this as a scoop. However, The Washington Post is does not confirm this.[22] The Washington Post story also stops short of giving a 100% confirmation that Jihadi John is Emwazi, despite what some people have claimed.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:52, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Ok, ok, Ian. The more you reveal, the more I am thinking this was a W.P. scoop that may have embarrassed both Obama and Cameron, and almost the BBC who had to go along with it. Shucks I'm going have to go and strike out all my robust comments on the JJ Talk page! Or else just wait for the next W.P. revelation.... Martinevans123 (talk) 16:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
It has been suggested that the BBC already knew about this from Cageprisoners, also known as CAGE.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:07, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Ah, yes they're the ones who blame MI5 for being the metal goalposts, aren't they? (... whoops! almost linked to The Daily Snail, there). Martinevans123 (talk) 16:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────The BBC's news reports gave considerable weight to Cageprisoners spokespersons. Maybe - just maybe - they had already heard about Mohammed Emwazi.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Reading between the lines, it looks as though members of CAGE had told the BBC pretty much the same things that they told the Washington Post, but it was the Washington Post that published first.[23] I'm off, it's been a long day.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Ian. You deserve a rest. Your thorough research is an inspiration. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


Here are the Google News UK autocomplete results for "ji" this morning.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

What a collection. Guess none of them are really G.I. Joes, are they. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:47, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
If it's any consolation I get 'Jingle Bells, Jimmy Choo, jigsaw and, of course, Jizz Monster. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:50, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure how Google autocomplete works, and whether everyone sees the same things. These are the non-news results, the others were from . Shamefully, I had to look up who Jimmy Bullard was.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I advise you to Bend it like Bullard. Let's not forget those other Jimmies we have all loved, including: Ruffin, Jewell, Osmond, Hendrix, Young, Wales and of course The Undertones. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC) .... and not forgetting Jimmy the raven who appeared in over 1,000 feature films...
Experts declare (WP:WEASEL) that you can learn a lot by the autocomplete results that come up when certain letters or words are entered into Google Search and the autocomplete results come up. There have been some NSFW/politically incorrect/potentially libellous examples. There was one person with a BLP whose name would produce a range of these results, but I must have had a bang on the head and forgotten which one it was, as I cannot name it here.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, NFSW - Google's very useful when you're in a hurry. A bang on the head can be useful in avoiding blame. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:54, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Even more weird[edit]

This comes from The Ronnie Johns Half Hour. Fatwas at the ready...--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:16, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Ah, that gentle American humor! I must get one in ready for next Christmas. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
To continue my long association with pedantry, this was made for Australian TV. It is a favourite link for Americans, though.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:28, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
"Strewth, possums!" Martinevans123 (talk) 17:35, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
And some more satire from the current issue of Private Eye.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:12, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


Spanish Armada

That was [Esperanto].

No respect![edit]

Caradoc stands the acid test .... yes, he must be one of those "beat poets".
Lovis Corinth Wikipedia group-therapy

I tell you I get no respect! I go to the doctor, I tell him "Doc, every time I look in the mirror I want to throw up! What's wrong with me?" The doctor says "Well, its not your eyesight." I tell you I get no respect!--MONGO 17:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Me too. I tell you I get no respect! I go to the doctor, I tell him "Doc, every time I look in the mirror I want to grow up!" Hafspajen (talk) 17:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
From the picture you posted above, Hafs, next time you go, I think your doctor needs to look elsewhere. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:58, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Man: "Doctor, doctor, I feel like a pair of curtains."
Doctor: "Nonsense man! You need a decent classical composer."
I get no respect either! I go to the doc, I say, "doc im having odd dreams. Last night I dreamed I was a wigwam, and then a circus big top" he says "you're just too tense!" No respect from anyone anymore! Irondome (talk) 18:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Somewhat odd story coming from an "Irondome". EEng (talk) 18:07, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
That was what finally persuaded me to get one! Irondome (talk) 20:28, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks so much for that joke, Domey, I could see your intent. It reminded me of Christmas about 10 years ago. A real cracker. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:42, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Me, too, as, Caradoc ap Ynyr (talk) 17:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
800x480-Y Ddraig Goch.png Hapus Dydd Gŵyl Dewi
20140226Narcissus pseudonarcissus2.jpg
Happy St. David's Day! ...... 13:20, bring it on!!

Happy David's day, go reveal moar ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:42, 1 March 2015 (UTC) ... +1 👍 Like

I tell you I get no respect! I go to the doctor I say "Hey doc! I never have sex so how will I ever manage to have a three some!?" The doc says "use both hands!"...budda bum. I tell you I get no respect!--MONGO 17:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

I tell you I get no respect! I look at William Burges, do you see what I see/saw? What kind of consensus is that? Revealing, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Pointy birds. So pointy-pointy

Anoint my head! Anointy-nointy.

I thank you. Irondome (talk) 20:41, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

"Please take a ticket from reception and await to be called." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:47, 1 March 2015 (UTC) ...Note: bird watching is down the corridor.
No respect..mutter ..shuffle..some drooling..didn't even indicate which door..Irondome (talk) 21:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Paging Dr. Young[edit]

Remember Dr. Young? And the DYK Hook to End All DYK Hooks --

... that Dr. Young's Ideal Rectal Dilators were abruptly withdrawn after the FDA clamped down on them?

--? Well, I think it's time we got working in that, don't you? I'm still unsure whether we can get past the notability threshold, but I take hope from this [25] (left column, top) and [26]. The major problem is that this [27] is really a primary source -- we'll need something secondary if possible on the FDA action. In fact, these, um, devices were apparently sold through the 50s and maybe the 70s, so we may have to turn the hook around to "not withdrawn despite" etc. Why don't you see if you can come up with anything. EEng (talk) 05:13, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I ask the doc, "Hey doc....what's the difference between a rectal thermometer and an oral one? Doc says "The taste".....booo! Lousy joke!--MONGO 20:27, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Doctor, Doctor I keep getting pains in the eye when I drink coffee.
Have you tried taking the spoon out?

You are all hopeless[edit]

Giovanni Giacometti (1868 - 1933)

Houses at Auvers Hafspajen (talk) 20:12, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Phew. Not just me then. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
That was BAD, I AM GOING TO PUNISH YOU. With green naked women. Hafspajen (talk) 20:58, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Green woman with Pirate and Princess at Coney Island Mermaid Parade
No worries. She has pink In All the Right Places. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Than it wasn't green enough. Hafspajen (talk) 22:53, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
No messsing with van Gögh. Hafspajen (talk) 01:01, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
You mean 'that van Gögh?! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:51, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Anna Rosina Marquart (non-green variety)
NOT Stör kräk vön Gögh. Gäniüs van Gögh. Hafspajen (talk) 11:31, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Giulio Romano - Venus and Mars Bathing - WGA09568.jpg
{{{{{{{{{[[[[[["We look forward keenly to the appearance of their last work"]]]]]]}}}}}}.}}} Hafspajen (talk) 21:44, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
....What? No sign of any frogs? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
KIss me Frog-candle hg.jpg Marty!!!!Glass salt cellar 1720.jpg .... we are here Flegel Stillleben mit Frosch.jpg ... Wind in the Willows pg 326.png'Pond and Insects' from the 'Colorful Realm of Living Beings' by Ito Jakuchu.jpg
That's the nicest Green Lady you've shown me yet! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:06, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
What do you know, I never noticed that oriental one. neee Hafspajen (talk) 22:08, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

inquiring minds want to know[edit]

Anything you want to tell us? EEng (talk) 09:09, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

We are ships that pass in the night - sometimes under the transporter bridge. Robevans123 (talk) 09:22, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
That name rings a bell, it's true. I do have a slight interest in trains. But I'm known locally as "The Dark Destroyer". (sorry if this is a bitter pill to swallow.) Martinevans123 (talk) 09:49, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
"Libraries gave us power, then work came and made us free". JamesDeanEvans123 (talk) 10:07, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
While I may not be a domestic goddess, my favourite journey is coming home over the Severn Bridge. And although I would rather have played for Wales at Cardiff Arms Park than Rusty Charlie at the Hexagon, Reading (my finest performance), it may happen one day. Exiled in Cambridge (talk) 11:38, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm sure Rusty has his charms. Don't sell yourself short. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:55, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Haha, yes. That's cousin Eddie from Ystalyfera, also known as "Evans the Heels". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:26, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page[edit]

Carl Spitzweg - Berglandschaft mit Liebespaar (Jäger und Mädchen).jpg

What on earth? [29] MadGuy7023 (talk) 19:07, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, no idea. Not even looking at Main Page! Sticky mouse? But I saw nothing and got no confirmation pop-up. Please disregard. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:10, 6 March 2015 (UTC) /... just tried to self-revert, but you beat me to it. Many thanks.
No worries, I did that myself once; Luckily I knew I did that myself and self reverted. MadGuy7023 (talk) 19:14, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
I've done maybe twice in 6 years. But this time no indications that anything had happened. Thanks for telling me, anyway.

For You[edit]

Barnstar-butterfly.png The Butterfly AwardBarnstar

Because you are the Butterfly of Wikipedia Hafspajen (talk) 18:00, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Really? Only one? Just me? Ahh, how lovely, I'll just get my Irish knitwear .... but that's funny I'd always seen myself more as a Bullet With Butterfly Wings!! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:26, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
.... we all make mistakes forgive me.....(featuring a genius from Abertridwr, Caerphilly)
.Goodness gracious. Hafspajen (talk) 00:01, 11 March 2015 (UTC) : [30]

Jeremy Clarkson[edit]

Can't help but be reminded here of Waldorf Salad (Fawlty Towers).--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 12:46, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Haha yes, how very appropriate. I'm sure Mr Hamilton would approve. What is the BBC coming too these days? You'd have thought Jezza could have afforded 20 quid! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:57, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
You cannot walk into a hotel at any time of day and demand a meal of your choice, as the Waldorf Salad episode shows. Hollywood stars would get round this problem by having their own catering trucks on location, but whether the BBC licence fee stretches to this is another matter.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:07, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Daytona here we come! .... star in the reasonably priced car. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:37, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Well, when JC (not Jesus Christ, the other one) loses his job and goes over to ITV or Sky, he can have it written into his contract that he has his own catering truck. It's an ill wind...--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:41, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Or even arrange his own? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:53, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Almost had me there, it appears that Ken Clarkson has nothing to do with JC. Here is the website of the hotel which JC (allegedly) found to have Fawlty Towers-style failings. Neither the Brasserie Menu nor the Restaurant Menu offers the guests a Waldorf salad (100% true).--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:04, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Looks charming. A little piece of God's Own County that will be forever Fawlty - "What ho, Jezza!" Martinevans123 (talk) 14:11, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
When a hotel guest behaves like this, the traditional response is for the staff to pee in the soup and w@nk in the mayonnaise. Needless to say, the staff at the hotel in question are far too cultured to do this sort of thing.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:22, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Yikes. Hate to think what happens at Christmastime. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:34, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
JC (allegedly) wanted a steak. The Brasserie Menu would have offered this for £21.95 (quite reasonable for a hotel meal IMHO), but it closes at 8:45 PM. JC (allegedly) arrived at 10 PM.[31] C'est la vie, I suppose.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:17, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Great to see where our license fee money isn't going. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:44, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm surprised that none of the mainstream media has pointed this out, as it is only a few mouse clicks away. My local pub chain offers steak meals any time that it is open, and 10 PM would not be a huge problem (mind you, the frozen chips are a bit crap). It is surprising that the brasserie closes at 8:45 PM.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:51, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
  • And here is a steak meal from the pub in question. It was OK but might not have satisfied Jeremy Clarkson, who (allegedly) wanted an "8 oz sirloin with fondant potatoes, pan-fried wild mushrooms, grilled cherry tomatoes and peppercorn sauce."--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:04, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Great to see you tucking in to your "Jezza Fracas Celebratory Platter".

Frankenstein (disambiguation)[edit]

I noticed your revert. I hope you don't think I created that mess on Frankenstein (disambiguation). In fact it was done by User: who has made only one edit as you can see here and here. I had corrected a simple spelling error and after a second thought was in the process of fixing the garbage when you jumped in. :) Jodosma (talk) 21:08, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

No worries. Sorry for jumping in. I often do. I could see you were doing batch of corrections to "label". Martinevans123 (talk) 23:41, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm trawling through Wikipedia:Lists of common misspellings which is a good source of errors for me. Ciao. Jodosma (talk) 09:05, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Don't worry - you won't run out with me around! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:01, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

A golf girl for you![edit]

Standing on the golf course, dressed in cups of tea
I had a little problem
With Operation Yewtree
I tried to ask the golf girl
If she could fancy me
But later in the courthouse
They threw the book at me
Banged up with the Glitter
Taken up the ... no, I'll stop there actually

Well I'm glad to see there's one other person on here who has heard of In The Land Of Grey And Pink ... I used to play "Golf Girl" at open mics a long time ago, it just fits my voice and the words are quite silly and surreal, and hence easy to remember. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:31, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

One my favourite albums ever. Just so impeccably English (now this is VERY high praise coming from a Welshman!) I have yet to hear "the 5.1 thingy" for this album, but if it's anything like what's been done with Talking Heads, it's probably a revelation. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2015 (UTC) p.s. can Morgan Pressel sue for that?
ALSO, there's that really distinctive organ sound (hard to believe it's a Hammond, but I guess it must be) that goes thorough all the Canterbury stuff - Hatfield and the North, Robert Wyatt, Soft Machine, etc, etc. - if you know what I mean. Just magic. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:18, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Yup, you just take a Hammond and put it through a Marshall amp, maybe putting a wah-wah en route. I think about halfway through "Winter Wine" you can hear the click of a wah-wah pedal being activated. The title track of Things May Come and Things May Go but the title of this article goes on for ever and ever until it seems to take over the entire paragraph has a similar set-up. A lot of the time it's Dave Sinclair just passing through different bands. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
I heard this album in my formative years and I thought, "wow, so you can have rock that's not got huge pounding guitar riffs, but has some kind of enchanted woodland feel to it!" (... and then I heard Pink Floyd and realised you can actually have both). But I've always been very partial to that organ sound. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:38, 15 March 2015 (UTC) ... "Instrumentally, David Sinclair's fuzztone Hammond organ sound is a key ingredient of the early Caravan albums and his playing is the dominant instrument on them." apparently ...
Given that the band comes from round these parts, there something of local heroes I guess. I saved Jim Leverton from AfD (or was it just a rejected AfC?) who's played with them, and I've met a few of Rocky and the Natives, a local band that Geoff Richardson plays in when he's not Caravanning. PS: The 2001 CD reissue sleeve notes say the first date of recording was 14 September 1970. If that's an unreliable source then ik ben een Neelander. Umm.... Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 23:23, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
I think maybe Dave Grinstead and his cannon deserve a mention in the text?? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:11, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
IIRC the CD sleeve notes don't say anything other than his mention in the credits, so what's there is cited almost verbatim. However, my notes for If I Could Do It All Over Again... credit Pye Hastings with "impersonation of a friendly gorilla", so when I get round expanding that, it should definitely go in! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:37, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Not too far off GA, this now, I think. Just a reliable source citing the trombone and a few other citations and I think we're there. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:19, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

I do hope we can pin down the cannon. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:26, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
I always felt a bit uncomfortable with the line "illuminates the breasts of four young girls" in "Winter Wine", and post Yewtree, it just sounds plain perverse. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Don't worry, the Goddard Inquiry is now meant to stretch as far back as the era of wandering minstrels and knights in armour cold. (But it might take quite a long time to complete.) Martinevans123 (talk) 17:09, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
That reminds me of a bad joke, a bloke goes onto a beach with Jimmy Savile and Gary Glitter. His mate looks at him and says, "you idiot, I said bring a pair of _s_peedos! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
What did Margaret Thatcher and Jimmy Savile have in common?
They both shafted miners in the 1980s. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:43, 19 March 2015 (UTC)


"Britannica fairy-dust" – good one! Face-grin.svg Sca (talk) 14:54, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Should be using "Enciclopedia Iberica", of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:02, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Or, I understand pre-1990 copies of this one are going cheap these days. Sca (talk) 15:48, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
"Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky? ... dear old Lenny? ... the great Elmyra, and Sancho Panza?" Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 18 March 2015 (UTC) [32]
And talking of strangling someone, I'm not going to bother at ITN any more, since the Encyclopedia Britannica is apparently just a "lame mirror of Wikipedia" (how and when did that happen??) that can't be used too many times in the same article section. And no-one can explain objectively (let alone write down somewhere) how good an article has to be to be linked from the Main Page. So now we have a lovely Cervantes patchwork quilt. Apparently it's "the very antithesis of a "quality article"". So hardly worth pissing on, even if it were on fire. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:56, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
This just in to the ITN newsroom: Miguel de Cervantes is still dead. Sca (talk) 16:00, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Hahaha. Thanks for the update. I was beginning to worry. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:12, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

A reminder[edit]

Carl Gustav Carus - Nebelwolken in der Sächsischen Schweiz (ca.1828).jpg

Wikipedia:Rules for Fools.

And exactly what are you implying, Mr Anon!?? How very dare you! As if I have ever been seen in a multicoloured tricorn hat with bells on!! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:27, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Huh. Pepsi (talk) 19:39, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Up close and personal[edit]

I wonder if you would be so kind as to give an expedited examination to Template:Did you know nominations/Dr. Young's Ideal Rectal Dilators, with an eye towards its being ready for April 1? I am, sir, as always, your humble and obedient etc. etc. and so on and so forth. EEng (talk) 03:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

The perfect phrases for such requests have been found by Bach, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:02, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Steh auf, du Faulpelz!
(English: "You lazy women are wanted at Wikipedia!!")
Or, was it Mozart? Face-devil-grin.svg Sca (talk) 13:16, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
What did you miss in: joy in the effort of "awakening"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:20, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Well, I'm partly of Swabian descent. Does that explain it? Sca (talk) 13:57, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it does. Would now somebody bold see what I tried to awake, and perhaps do it? There should now be no serious objection, just I can't do it myself, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:04, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Ich bin verwirrt. Sca (talk) 14:55, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
"Ich bin ein Pfannkuchen". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:08, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Faulpelz seem to be strictly for men, no idea what a lazy woman would be called. He (Siegfried) has not seen a woman before, his mother died when giving birth, and he was raised only by a male dwarf. Nonetheless, he will kiss this woman and then she wakes up for "Everything you can sing I can sing louder" and "Love on the rocks" (see Anna Russell). - Anyway, look at Don Giovanni, back to Mozart, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:24, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Why Gerda, a Faulpelzin, of course! Face-grin.svg Sca (talk) 17:57, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Ah, yes. I think the English equivalent term would be "you lazy cow". Martinevans123 (talk) 16:09, 20 March 2015 (UTC) ... but great to see The Jazz Singer getting a mention.
Night music awakened --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:19, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I'd certainly never wish to "chain men to machine-readable data", I can assure you. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:38, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Dear Dr. Young as if I would ever dignify such mindless twaddle outrageous threats with any response.... D'oh! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:33, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
By "mindless twaddle," did you perhaps mean cruft? Sca (talk) 12:46, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
It's all Greek to me... Martinevans123 (talk) 13:21, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
You mean Geek. Sca (talk) 14:18, 21 March 2015 (UTC)



Can you get rid of that creature some day so I can return to your page? Chromium incognito otr icon fullscreen.png Anonim.gif

Alexander Majorov in Art on Ice 2014.jpg

ANI-ymous (talk) 08:24, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow that looks like quite a party going on there. I'll get my caddy to have a word.... Martinevans123 (talk) 08:36, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
It was probably the bicycle clips I spotted under the surplice. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:27, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Well, it was only a try to be efficient ... Hafspajen (talk) 09:56, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Loreen and her dancers at Art on Ice 2014-3.jpg
nice gloves

THat terrible woman in yellow shorts is still there. Anti-Yellow shorts (talk) 18:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, sorry about that, might be a while before she "takes off" .... nice club though, don't you think? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Bridge Club, Mixed Dance Lessons and Live Sky & BT Football - ... this kind your club? The vigorous Ante-Yellow shorts (talk) 18:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Do all wear Yellow Terrible Shorts? The vigorous Penny ante (talk) 00:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
You-betcha!!! ... "Hold a chicken in the air, Stick a deckchair up your nose" !! Just imagine ... Nigel and Tezza in perfect harmony! YAY!! Bring on May 7th!! Martinevans123 (talk) 23:25, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
THERE is only ONE chicken SONG. The vigorous Pio (talk) 00:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Soooo, she is still here today too. Time for Lars-Åke Wilhelmsson. At least no terrible YELLOW SHORTS inte, det, inte. Anti-Yellow shorts (talk) 18:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Much MUCH more stylish than your yellow-shorts -thing. Hafspajen (talk) 14:37, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

More uplifting comments from the peanut gallery[edit]

Yet another fully satisfied Dr. Young customer.

[33] EEng (talk) 13:00, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

I would have said more of a "plain Jane". How grumpy can you get! But I'd have thought any post that begins i am women ought to be treated with more than a little caution. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:15, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Um, did you persist to the second bit of the diff? EEng (talk) 13:19, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Ah, evidently not.... goodness me EEng, you plumb new depths. You are hereby officially awarded the Golden Arse Trumpet of Scunthorpe. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:39, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
You surely can't have expected me to resist, can you? EEng (talk) 13:54, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Good news! Template:Did you know nominations/Dr. Young's Ideal Rectal Dilators is going to the main page! No thanks to you...
I feel so relieved. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
....Fighting talk! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
NOOO, You sacrilegious pantheist. Hafspajen (talk) 21:25, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm not a pantyist!! ...well, not weekdays, anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:27, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
A Yellow Shorts! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:35, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Second thought - what not weekdays? Hafspajen (talk) 22:23, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Can't I start a naughtily suggestive thread without it being hijacked by you two lunatics? EEng (talk) 22:41, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Very unlikely. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Very unlikely. Hafspajen (talk) 19:36, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Do you see what I don't see?
May I join? See the invisible (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:57, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
But of course, Gerda, you have an agenda to support after all!! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:39, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, too many former editors are invisible, like the one who started the bird, and the one who wrote inflammatory letters. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:38, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Internet Hafspajen (talk) 02:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Martinevans123. You have new messages at Hafspajen's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
As if I'd ever be taken in by this "old chestnut", Hafs .... D'oh!! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Oh, Really? What were you doing on my page then? Face-smile.svg --Hafspajen (talk) 20:20, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Baking shop in Scottsdale[edit]

Hi. See my last note on the revision. Doesn't belong in the same list of major corporations. It's a small baking shop. You could put it at the beginning of the Culture section, mentioning it in the same way as the MTV episode is mentioned. Where you currently put it is WP:UNDUE. Onel5969 (talk) 13:23, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Fine. Deleting something wholesale, because it's deemed to be "non-notable", is not quite the same as simply re-locating it because it's WP:UNDUE. Does everything else in that sectiom have a supporting source? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:29, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Deleting something because it's non-notable is perfectly acceptable. And where you were inserting it, it was clearly not notable. In it's current location, you could add a citation, but since their is a wikilink to the article, which clearly shows it was a tv episode, you might not even need a citation. Onel5969 (talk) 13:48, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Your edit summary told me categorically that it was non-notable and unsourced. Might have been easier to just put it in the right place? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:51, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it would have been easier for you to put it in the right place. I don't think it belongs in the article at all. I think references like that (in this and other articles) make the subject seem less important. By putting trivial stuff in articles, it makes the subject seem desperate to be noticed, which in my opinion, this article does not need. Take it easy. Onel5969 (talk) 13:59, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Ah, right. Teaching me a lesson. I can assure you that I would never have heard of Scottsdale if it had not been for dear Gordon Ramsay. Now I wish I hadn't. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)


Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikipedia (7th nomination)... Hafspajen (talk) 22:25, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

What, only the 7th?? I'll sit this one out, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:37, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

All the fun of the fair[edit]

Thank you for your 'subtle' thanks to me. I like to think I have a long tether, but some days it does get stretched beyond reality. Cheers and regards,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 16:53, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm sure I would have responded in the same, or possible more "colourful", way. Now run along and be a little more careful with your use of capital letters, would you? Thanks, so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:56, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Bloody 'earl ![edit]

Yes, it is a bit perplexing, isn't it? This little piece provides an explanation. I blame all that inbreeding - very difficult for us lesser mortals to get to grips with.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:08, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Speak for yourself, Bonzo! ...woof. But thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:11, 2 April 2015 (UTC) ... those poor toffs, they must feel so sequestered...
Yes, having to mix it with the hoi polloi... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:35, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Are you hot and sticky, mentally fagged?[edit]

Duo de basset-hound.jpg

Then try [34]. No, wait... I meant [35]. EEng (talk) 00:37, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

That dilator thing is really catching on...[edit]

I misread this: Anal Women's Training Center and Moroccan Restaurant. I thought, "Wha-at???" EEng (talk) 22:05, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

EEng, we all worry about you... alone for so long in that huge library... with only a skull and iron bar for company.... Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
We shouldn't let him read this... Thank you ma'am. Robevans123 (talk) 22:48, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
OK, who the hell is Robevans123??? EEng (talk) 23:29, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Robevans is in Norway. Hafspajen (talk) 14:32, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Seems a little harsh. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Postal cod ... 7517 ? Hafspajen (talk) 18:37, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Postal cod??? EEng (talk) 18:12, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Rock Lobster, maybe?

....................Postal code..............not sacred cod and whatnot.Hafspajen (talk) 04:07, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Then there's always the Spanish word for "year" for those of us without a tilded n on our keyboards and who can't be arsed to type unicode. Works well when asking someone how old they are in Spanish. Softlavender (talk) 04:12, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

In other news[edit]

One of ME's easter-eggs above reminded me of an ambition I've had for some time: to bring Hell, Norway to GA, thus qualifying it for DYK. The mind boggles at the orgy of potential hooks e.g. "Temperatures in Hell can reach −25 °C (−13 °F) during winter", "There are just over 1300 people in Hell", "The road to Hell is paved with...", "There are frequent daily tours of Hell", "Miss Universe 1990 was from Hell", that kind of thing. Who wants to help? EEng (talk) 04:36, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

OK; we try. More people can go to hell, I knew one personally, who is dead now. Hope this can be the way. Though, my skills are on the illustrative side. Hafspajen (talk) 12:10, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy Easter[edit]

Easter Bunny.JPG Happy Easter
Happy Easter.... long time. Atgyfododd Crist! Atgyfododd yn wir! Hafspajen (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Easter. The grave clothes of winter
are still here, but the sepulchre
is empty. A messenger
from the tomb tells us
how a stone has been rolled
from the mind, and a tree lightens
the darkness with its blossom.
There are travellers upon the road
who have heard music blown
from a bare bough, and a child
tells us how the accident
of last year, a machine stranded
beside the way for lack
of petrol, is crowned with flowers.
"Resurrection" by R. S. Thomas.
Nice. Did you see resurrection on my talk? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:40, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
I did. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Control gradient[edit]

I am curious about this statement, simply because I haven't heard that phrase before in reference to airliner accidents: "I think there may be a 'control gradient' in the final moments of an aircraft crash."

If you can spare the time, I would greatly appreciate your explaining what that sentence means. Thanks, EditorASC (talk) 01:19, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

It's simply the idea that the aircraft is not wholly "under control" until the moment it's "out of control". Rather that the pilot's inputs are still having an effect, but are having less and less of an effect, until there is catastrophic failure (or collision). It's a bit simplistic, I'm afraid. And in the era of fly-by-wire, this may be rather brief and may not be easy to see. If the aircraft is aerodynamically unstable, it may be very brief indeed. That's all. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:51, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks much for the prompt reply. Now that I understand what you meant, my next question (again, if you can spare the time -- if not, then I won't be offended if you do not reply further) is if you are aware of any official accident report, or other documents from the FAA, or equivalent regulatory authorities, that discuss that "control gradient" concept. It would be an important report to add to my library, if I can find it. EditorASC (talk) 18:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
P.S. As to an airliner being "aerodynamically unstable," right now I can think of only two: The MD-11 and the B-727 at higher altitudes (dutch roll problem). If you know of others, I would appreciate that kind of info too. Cheers.
Apologies, I've never seen it in any official accident report. I think I got it from the work of Sidney Dekker or his colleagues. Of it might have been Frank Hawkins or someone like that. And of course airliners are pretty aerodynamically stable, aren't they, unlike those much faster planes that typically carry things that go whoosh and bang. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:47, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

LOL! Well thanks for your help. I'll give it a go with those names combined with human factors research. I might find some real interesting stuff, enjoying the search in the process, because human factors in the airline industry has been a subject I have been deeply interested in for many years. Cheers. EditorASC (talk) 22:19, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

In the Land of Grey and Pink has been nominated for Did You Know[edit]

Grey and Pink cookies

Dear Marty[edit]

Here is a [36] challenge for you. Hafspajen (talk) 14:42, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Welcome, new editor! EEng (talk) 00:19, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that should do the trick. And I'm sure your efforts over gender equality won't go "amiss". Martinevans123 (talk)
You're one of the few whose comment actually make me LOL. EEng (talk) 12:55, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
That is very gratifying and, of course, all I ever aim for. I wish more editors had a sense of homour like yours (or even a just sense of humour at all.) I guess if one's ego gets so big, there's simply no room for one. I've been enjoying your image gallery lately. Some real gems there. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:38, 15 April 2015 (UTC) p.s. I would certainly never claim to have "diverged from chimps."
Keep wishing [37]. EEng (talk) 22:59, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, I must have missed all those "tell-tale signs of someone trying to use constructions and language that he doesn't really understand." Probably because I didn't understand them. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:13, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, someone's missing something. [38]
Aghast! "Not ending a sentence with a preposition is a bit of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put!" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Said the boy (tired of the same bedtime stories about Australia all the time) to his father: "What did you bring that book, which I do not wish to be read to from about Down Under, up for?" EEng (talk) 22:26, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
... onuppan the bed, maybe?? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I think of my user page as being for the select few. BTW, it never occurred to me that "they" would actually let this stay, but it has. [39] EEng (talk) 15:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
It never occurred to me that "they" would actually let this stay, but it has. (Still in the Maria Radner context, as Jeannette Zarou) - Not so Beethoven, see? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:32, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
"Träume" in a box?! whatever next! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Dämmergrau - miss Hafspajen who suggested the image and countless others --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, a beautiful choice. He opened this thread.Hope he comes back when he's ready. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
my choice of the options under Traum... including your moorish, and don't miss the lead image and the cat, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:41, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Mine probably too Wessex or Heathcliff. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)


Can you read the sources here and tell me if I'm off base? WP:Articles for deletion/M. William Phelps EEng (talk) 22:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Well I'll try, but can't promise. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 17 April 2015 (UTC) p.s. "naïve" is spelt with a diaresis ... as my old friend User:DireCriticMark will tell you...

I know who you remind me of...[edit]

I've just figured out who you remind me of, with your quirky and funny sense of humour: Paul Merton, from Have I Got News for You. Please stick (and keep your jokes around too), you're one of my favourite editors. Thank you! 1Potato2Potato3Potato4 (talk) 16:50, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Haha, lol. And you have one of the most inspiring user names I have ever seen! But thanks so much. I was listening to Paul on the radio only this morning. He's a witty guy. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:16, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
I loved how he tried to defuse Hislop and Prescott on HIGNfY yesterday, but I find your humour so similar! All the best, 1Potato2Potato3Potato4 (talk) 17:19, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
I find Wikipedia is full of Hislops and Prescotts! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:48, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Haha! Is Hislop related at all? 1Potato2Potato3Potato4 (talk) 17:51, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Not in the slightest, as far as I know. But one could easily imagine he is, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:55, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Soldier at a Game of Chess[edit]

Hello Martinevans123, I just thought I would let you know that I've nominated Soldier at a Game of Chess for DYK. Let me know what you think of the hook, if you have the time. Thanks in advance. :-) Coldcreation (talk) 15:08, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Ok, many thanks. I'll have a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:11, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
I'd probably be tempted to put "while he was mobilized during WWI...". And of course the hook begs the question of having an article on Crystal Cubism itself!. All in good time, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:16, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps some editors might object that the hook is too strong, as the article says only: "It has been suggested that this work was painted during his mobilization, or shortly thereafter." Martinevans123 (talk) 15:26, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Excellent points. I'll see what I can do. Thanks. Coldcreation (talk) 19:48, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
It's a wonderful article and I can see you've put a lot of work into it. Very well done. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:52, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Accidental rollback[edit]

I'm sorry, I just accidentally used the rollback function on one of your comments at ITN/C. Please accept my sincere apologies. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 15:21, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm actually quite grateful, as you prompted me to correct my spelling. Thanks for the note. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:22, 21 April 2015 (UTC) ... it's a shame that the "Notification" flag could not self-cancel if it saw that a revert had been reverted!

Request for mediation rejected[edit]

The request for formal mediation concerning Honorific nicknames in popular music, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, TransporterMan (TALK) 13:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Thanks for telling me. If only I knew what it was about. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:54, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring[edit]

What you are doing on Talk:April 2015 Mediterranean Sea migrant shipwrecks is an edit war. While I agree that your reverts on the article proper were justified, there is no reason to revert the talk page comment, and certainly no reason to do it repeatedly. Just refute what he says and be done with it. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

The "contributor" you are defending is a vandal and has now been blocked. So you may have to wait a while to get a reply at the Talk Page. I don't particularly enjoy being called a "fucker", even in Italian. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:15, 21 April 2015 (UTC) ... care to translate this quaint edit summary "hai rotto i coglioni brutto stronzo". Hmmm.
Gosh, you have a response almost immediately! Whatever can that mean? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:19, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Um, I didn't defend anyone. Take a step back and relax - his crappy behaviour does not justify repeatedly removing his talk page comment. Just explain the way things work on Wikipedia and move on. Simple. Edit warring accomplishes nothing. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, simple. And you want me to "move on", yeah? I think that multiple sock should have been blocked after his third edit. But what do I know. Did you enjoy the translation? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
First of all, it's a dynamic IP, which is rather different than intentional sock puppetry. Second, of course he deserved to be blocked. Finally, you are free to ignore my advice all you want. I am just saying you accomplish nothing by working yourself up about what some idiot on the internet wrote, and you accomplish nothing by repeatedly reverting him, especially on a talk page. You'll save yourself a lot of stress by reverting a couple time, requesting a block or page protection if that doesn't work, and then moving on. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:39, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Shucks, and I thought it was my Talk Page. I didn't see anyone else keen to revert what I thought was mindless persistent vandalism (partly in Italian). But who's "worked up"? I just don't particularly want comments like "Hai rotto il cazzo loro erano e sono clandestini non sono migranti" at the top of my Talk Page. But thanks for your concern. Martinevans123 (talk)
I was referring to the reasonable comment (minus the edit summaries) left at article talk page, not anything on your talk page. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:57, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, all so simple. Not connected in any way. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 21 April 2015 (UTC) Why not give me warning and haul me off to WP:AN/I while you're at it?
Thank you, O merciful admin, for not blocking an insignificant worm like Martin!
You quite clearly violated 3RR. The IP insulting you on your talk page does not give you the liberty to repeatedly revert an attempt to express his opinion about article content at the article talk page. If I wanted to block you, I wouldn't need to take it to ANI, but go on thinking I was unreasonable for even daring to point out your obvious policy violation if you like. --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Too kind. So that was all good content added to the article as well, was it? And of course not "intentional sockpuppetting", just a nasty coincidence caused by a dynamic ip. Perhaps you'd prefer me just to retire? -- Ever yours, Disgusted of Monza and Brianza (talk) 08:46, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Only in Martin's LSD world do personal attacks arrive in Italian. EEng (talk) 23:26, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
While one might argue that being serious on Martin's page is an exercise in futility, if an IP were to arrive in a conversation I was involved in and make obscene comments about my parentage, my scatological habits and alleged claims of masturbatory behaviour, I would think "well it takes one to know one", laugh, and ignore it. Works every time. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:45, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
ThaddeusB, the first edit that the Italian blocked IP editor made to the migrant ships article was this one, in which they wrote, "the motherfucker rotto in culo Matteo Renzi said "F**k y'all italian, i don't give a f**k of y'alls". Subsequent edits - all of which were reverted by Martin - were similar, reinstating lines that included "if they want to migrate in my f**kin' country they must enter legally", with edit summaries such as "don't touch my shit"[40] and "you are a fucker"[41] directed towards Martin. It would be peculiar for any editor to conclude anything other than that this is a vandal who will be blocked, and as I understand it, all contributions by blocked editors can be removed, so it doesn't seem to me that Martin has done anything against policy. However even if you believe that, strictly and technically speaking, Martin has broken some rule, it seems to me that for him to do so in this context is wholly reasonable, whereas for you to come to his talkpage to lecture him seems rather unreasonable, not to mention unfeeling. Did you think to thank him for trying to keep the article clean of all that "fuckers" etc.? Or would you have preferred he went through the lengthier processes of page protection etc., and let the "fuckers" etc. remain? I suggest that rather than picking on valued and productive editors like Martin, you instead concentrate on just blocking the vandals. Comments such as "If I wanted to block you, I wouldn't need to take it to ANI" are crass and belittling; if that's the kind of 'reward' Martin gets for tackling vandals, I'm not surprised that he has removed himself from the project (hopefully only temporarily). PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 12:29, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Besides, if anyone's going to block Martin, they need to get in the orderly queue, right behind me. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
No, me first. EEng (talk) 12:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Look, nobody is to block anyone until I blow this whistle! Even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say "Jimbo"! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
"There's always one, isn't there!" Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Martin's wikibreak notice refers to vandals [42] but he's being too gentle. The real reason we may lose this valuable contributor is another high-handed lecture from an admin more concerned with form than substance. Good going. EEng (talk) 13:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Alright, shall I jump in? I just had coffee and a piece of chocolate cake so I'm ready for anything. All of you are right, though some are maybe less wrong than others. I agree with Thaddeus's comment ("let it go"--and let the admins handle it), while I understand Martin's response perfectly. I read Thaddeus's comment not as a warning but as advice; it seems obvious to me, though, that the spirit in which the comment was intended was not the spirit in which it was received, and that's understandable considering what Martin was called by the Italian IP. As an admin, I have to say that the many reverts weren't a good choice, since the content itself wasn't so bad, even if the edit summaries were unacceptable--which points at blocking, yes, as Thaddeus says, but doesn't necessitate reverting, since the edit summaries aren't "on" the talk page, so to speak. So sure, it was a violation of policy, technically, and I would have let it slide just like Thaddeus did, and I would probably have left a similar note as well, though I think it's always a good idea to include a beer or a piece of chocolate-covered bacon with such a note. (This sentence is not a run-on.)

    I hope Martin will come back soon, that the anger will subside, and that both editors understand they're the good guys. And let's not lose track of what really matters. None of us are drowned, and none of us (I suppose, I hope) had to flee our homes in the way these folks did, for the reasons that they did. Our job at Wikipedia is to report the facts, all the facts, and do it properly. Can I sidetrack? A few years ago I had the good fortune to attend a reading by James Zwerg (look him up for context), who was asked if he saw progress since the Civil Rights movement. He was quite adamant that it was ongoing and focused on "illegal immigration" immediately, saying emphatically, "there are no illegal immigrants" (a statement no doubt inspired by his own life, his particular brand of Christianity, and his blatant disregard for bureaucratic, political language that denies basic human rights and decency: a higher law). Martin, we could use your help. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:52, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

My comment was indeed intended as advice, not a warning, and I only responded further to clarify. Obviously I failed... Like everyone else, I hope Martin returns after he has a chance to cool off. However, I think some of you are completely missing my point here. When established editors are treated with immunity to the point where someone even commenting on their policy violations is viewed with contempt, then there is something wrong with Wikipedia. When edits like [43][44] are reverted because of the editor's article edits, that is quite clearly not proper. Yes, the article edits were bad, but taking it to the talk page is exactly what someone is supposed to do. Only after Martin chose to remove the (legitimate) talk page comment did the insults here & at the article talk page start. If he had just responded to the comment instead of deleting it (or ignored it if he didn't want to respond), things probably would have never escalated as far as they did. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:36, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
"The troll here are you. I'm not a xenophobic or racist, so someone ban this troll." Some might see that as a little inappropriate for a talk page discussion? But it seems you don't, as you've not challenged it in any way. Perhaps because it's not grammatically correct? And of course, it's still unclear if that was all one person, enjoying their personal journey of abuse and disruption, or several different persons all located in Milan. I guess we'll never know. But I'm just off to the shops for some early lo shopping di Natale. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:00, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Obviously I can't link to this, since that would be a copyvio, wouldn't it? That's two fucking heroes, right there, of the kind that seems to be in short supply. Drmies (talk) 14:55, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
MONGO agree with esteemed Drmies...mostly. But MONGO already missing the greatly esteemed MartinMan. Excuse MONGO APEMAN attempt at Welsh but...Byddwn fwyta ar waed fandaliaid--MONGO 15:58, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
"despised and rejected" - [45]
It's so nice to be remembered. But I'm more of a mushy peas man myself. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:28, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

DYK for In the Land of Grey and Pink[edit]

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:31, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

A good one, thank you. SG? Emma Ayres, Bratschistin und spätere Hör­funk­modera­torin, radelte allein von England nach Hongkong. (German Main page today and tomorrow), translated in memory of GFHandel, who - as a consequence of a certain discussion on Bach - phrased a little more explicitly what you compared to the freezing of hell. (DYK that another editor said "would be a cold day in hell" about arbcom apologizing to a victim?) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:22, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I'm thinking of "doing an Eric" and not editing on any day of the week that ends in a "y". Martinevans123 (talk) 18:04, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
This video seems appropriate. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
"Do you mind?? I am smoking a fag!!" Martinevans123 (talk) 18:10, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
DYK ... that a church's 1510 spiral of justice (pictured) declares: "Justice suffered in great need. Truth is slain dead. Faith has lost the battle"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:49, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

File:In the Land of Grey and Pink.ogg[edit]

You've marked this file as free with the rationale "the copyright holder has granted permission for this image to be used in Wikipedia". Unless you can prove that Decca / Universal really have submitted an OTRS ticket for the sample, this is not the case. See File:Firth of Fifth.ogg for an acceptable fair use rationale. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:31, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I should probably be blocked for such a transgression. I had thought the wizard always added a fair use rationale (and I'm not sure why it doesn't.) Can anyone add that or only the uploader? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:43, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Anyone can edit the file and put a valid FUR in. I don't know why the wizard doesn't do that. File copyrights are probably the most confusing thing on Wikipedia and the easiest way to bite newbies, as anything that doesn't comply with copyrights has to be nuked ASAP, no questions asked. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh dear. I think I may need revisit all of my audio sample uploads in the near future.... I've reverted it from the article for now - you might wish to tweak it a bit and re-add it, if you think it's good enough. I must say your description for the "Firth of Fifth" sample looks like a Masters thesis compared with my hasty back-of-fag-packet scrawl. As per my edit summary, I'd be happy to construct any alternate/others from Land of Grey and Pink, if you have strong suggestions. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:10, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
I should be able to cobble something together for a sample of "Nigel Blows A Tune" from "Nine Feet Underground" showing the Hammond going at full blast. Oh, a while back I mentioned I had a gig that had a Hammond at the venue ... turns it out it was a C-3 with a Leslie 147 (?) and at times it sounded just like David Sinclair's solos. Uncanny. Somebody had a camera so hopefully pictures will leak out. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:18, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I'm sure we'll all be eagerly thumbing through copies of Hello! and Harper's Bazaar, while we're down at the salon, hoping for a glimpse, dearie. Meanwhile I'd appreciate any corrections you could make to the ogg file, to show me clearly where I am going wrong. I always try and target tracks that are at least 5 minutes long, as anything less than a 30-second sample always seems a bit futile. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:09, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Ritchie, I popped over to Wikipedia talk:Non-free use rationale guideline and have tweaked the upload. Maybe it could go back in the article now? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
The FUR is okay now, but personally I think you might be better off with a composite of the track - 10 seconds of Richard's singing with acoustic, cross-faded into the start of a stereotypical David Hammond solo. I'm afraid my Mac has died so I've lost all my mp3s, so I'll have to work out where exactly the CDs are buried, so that might be an easier task for you to do as things currently stand. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:53, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Goodness me, that sounds like a bit of a complicated game! I'd be happy to upload another - just give me the track and the times. Is there a limit on the number of samples one should add for a single album article? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
There's no hard limit, but for an album like this you're probably better off with one. Always remember that non-free content is against one of the principles of Wikipedia so using it is very much a privilege, and if people think the audio can be represented equally well as text, that'll take priority. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:29, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Personally, I've never understood how music can be equally represented by text as by audio. Even 30 seconds is usually a severe challenge to me. Oh well, at least we've got a basic sample for now, at least until you find your CDs! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:38, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Top Gear RfC[edit]

You recently participated in a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Archive 20#Presenters' years in infobox. Subsequent to this discussion, an RfC has been opened at Talk:Top Gear (2002 TV series)#RfC: Should years be included in the infobox, in which you may be interested in participating. --AussieLegend () 14:41, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Have added a "vote". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
(Now where on earth could the BBC find a young daredevil, a beer-drinking racist and another Captain Slow, all with a bit of time on their hands??) Martinevans123 (talk) 11:14, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


Where is Tryptofish these days? OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 18:47, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I really don't know. Now you mention it, I've not seen him for quite a while. I hope all is well. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:59, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Just wanted to appreciate his efforts, including yours and the way you both looked EEng after. You may want to read WP:ARC#Admin tool misuse: Bgwhite, I have mentioned both incidents of his first 2 blocks. We might have solved a lot of problems if we had taken some serious action then. Still never too late. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 23:20, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Martin, have you forgotten? [46] EEng (talk) 00:06, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
I do hope he's ok and that he will be back soon. He should take as long he needs, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Rode Hall, Mow Cop[edit]

The source I used gave 1812, but you're right, the Mow Cop Castle and Primitive Methodism articles both give 1807. Both seem to be cited using more authoritative sources, so I'll update it to 1807 and change the source. Sotakeit (talk) 09:31, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks. I'm intrigued as to where they got the year 1812. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


Doing it this way is still copyvio, since the sentence structure (with a minor quote) was exact ... the author needs his own article anyway, so I shortened the whole thing. We don't need that much detail on Hayes in Sacks' article. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Poor old Ollie, eh? He waits 75 years before he "allows himself to fall in love" and then even that subtlety is swept away here in the cause of avoiding copyvio. I'd never have thought I'd be giving credit to Vanity Fair for the delicacy of their writing, but your ruthlessly efficient tidy-up has proved me wrong. I'd agree we wouldn't want so much detail about Hayes, if he had an article. But he doesn't. And until he does, I would have thought a mere 12 words would be at least instructive. Still, I guess if the article is, as you say, "still dreadful", then no-one will really notice. Not least poor Oliver. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
The Vanity Fair article gave the fellow a sentence. And didn't even tell us where that relationship ended, so to me, the whole thing is undue sensationalism, until/unless someone reads the book and figures out if there is more worth saying. If someone cares that much, they could write his article! Vanity Fair writes a whole article on Sacks, but Wikipedia-- true to form-- cherrypicks one sensational tidbit. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:08, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's "sensational". I found it rather touching. But maybe that was the best bit. I guess we'll see. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Maybe you are interested in getting the book? I don't like the "teaser" aspect of the writeup-- it may get you to buy the book, and that's what that edit did :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:57, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Haha, now I understand! A tasty little bit of (very subtle) Vanity Fair Knopf promo work, eh? You lucky thing, I'm very envious. I would get the book, but I'm too busy reading up about Jeremy Vine's basketball career break. But feel free to send me one of your free copies. B. Twaddle123 (talk) 21:02, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Seriously! Glad you see it now. They hint at a relationship, but tell us nothing ... was there even a relationship? Or just an infatuation? Does this guy even belong in Sacks' article? For that matter, is it a BLP vio? We have to buy the book to found out! Only on Wikipedia ... so better for someone who cares to write an article on the fellow. (That would not be me :) Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:07, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Ah, you never know... maybe VF will do a feature on Billy Hayes and you'll be tempted to buy his autobiography. I'm sure there's a lot more material in that Sacks article that could be used to expand the article, without the need to buy the book at all. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Is it ego?[edit]

Hi Martinevans123, what is the reason you resist my attempt to simplify and combine your edit into the previous paragraph? As you can imagine, new information has appeared dozens of times for this event. Every time it does, we haven't been adding it to the article into a new paragraph with the date, that would be too laborious to read. (I am not new to this article; I have been one of the primary editors of this article from the beginning.) Prhartcom (talk) 13:04, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Whose ego are we discussing here? Lubitz's? I must be "new to the article", or perhaps not "one of the primary editors"? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
This is obviously a typo; what Prhartcom patently meant to ask was "Is it lego?" PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:40, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Speaking of Legos [47]. EEng (talk) 18:58, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Wow, chilling. Guess we don't need that article after all, then. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it's delightful. What article? EEng (talk) 20:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Just some very dodgy piece of fancrufted-synthetic-blog-rambling I stumbled across the other day. Don't worry about it - it's bound to get RfD-ed! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:31, 11 May 2015 (UTC) ... but I agree, a great video and very inventive lyric!
Hahahahahaha. Thanks so much. A very plausible alternative explanation of course, although I couldn't say definitively that the guy in the toilet was actually the captain. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:21, 6 May 2015 (UTC) But, wow - you get so much legroom and such a generous aisle width! Is that club class or business, I wonder? Almost as tempting as those foxy Air Dorises
I could probably taste the sarcasm. Alakzi (talk) 17:58, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
It's always so much less stressful to be told what to think, I find. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Surreal Barnstar Hires.png The Surreal Barnstar
For your arrival at heated discussions where you inject much needed humour. I have found myself chuckling at some of your recent comments to do with UKIP and the Moors Murders; especially here and here. Cheers! CassiantoTalk 19:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks so much. Ah, I love UK General Elections, don't you? They always seem to bring out the best in people. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:29, 6 May 2015 (UTC) (... hoping you might find audio Python more acceptable.)
It's the loonies who stand as independents who I like. When I was a kid living in a small village in Essex, there was a woman who walked her pet duck every morning around the roads. She lived off the land and made nettle soup, wild berry pie and, on the odd occasion, ate fresh(ish) road kill as a treat. She ended up standing for the Greens where she just dipped the majority vote. I still think the votes she received were people taking the piss out of her without her actually knowing it. Also, it's good to see a certain, recent editor who cropped up at the Moors Murder talk page, turn up after 35 seconds and offer his opinion on Farage. We suspected it all along of course. CassiantoTalk 19:49, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Elections can be such fun. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:15, 6 May 2015 (UTC) ... don't worry about him he's probably just a "shy kipper."


Better translation in the circumstances, I agree. But if you haven't yet encountered marc, sip with caution … great caution. Awien (talk) 18:18, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Haha, yes. I unwittingly tried it in Paris once, a very long time ago. But it could have been worse. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)


It happens that you can't be online when your article appears, see? CC edited this morning. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:33, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

At least you weren't judging a ferret show! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Talking about ballet: not without irony that now "my Romeo" is in DYK position 1, matching the dancer on my talk (great woman, RIP). Found an excellent image of him today, look for Cranko Era. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

57th general election?[edit]

I'm counting 55 here. Alakzi (talk) 21:25, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

So we need to change United Kingdom general election, 2015, and some or all of the previous ones? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Just the 2015 one by the look of it. Referring to UK elections by their number appears to be rather unique to Wikipedia; we probably shouldn't be doing it. Alakzi (talk) 21:44, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it's well weird. But I guess it still needs to be correct weirdness. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
hahaha, first time listening to that - happily, it's reminded me of this gem: "I wrote 'I know you want it' ... I can tell you what that is ... food". Anyway, should we move the article back? A RM is running on the talk page. Alakzi (talk) 22:34, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
lol, u gotta love Krishnan Guru-Murthy - "he ain't cool 'cos he ain't got no hat". Pharrell's very articulate isn't he, (apart from that sheep reference, of course). If you think moving the article back makes it all fine again - by all means, go ahead. I'm stepping back from this one! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:46, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


Don't like my wording? Well then fix it to your liking. Don't like a source? Well then find ones that satisfy you. You can help out you know. Caden cool 22:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

I did fix it. Even if you like something, it's sometimes possible to improve it? That's how Wikipedia works, isn't it? Any my edit summary "needs better source" applied to my own addition - previously there was no source at all. On second thoughts, I've taken that link out, as copyright is not clear. Now that you're here, what else would you like to scold me for? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:40, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes it's always possible to improve edits and yes that is how it works around this madhouse. Thanks for fixing it, it's much better than the way I wrote it, that's for sure. As for your edit summary, I read it wrong I must admit. Apologies for that. Caden cool 20:11, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
No worries. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

RAF Langham[edit]


How on earth is adding "<ref>[WW2 Langham training dome restoration complete]</ref> a reference/citation?

Wikipedia:Citing sources states "A full citation fully identifies a reliable source and, where applicable, the place in that source (such as a page number) where the information in question can be found. For example: Rawls, John. A Theory of Justice. Harvard University Press, 1971, p. 1. This type of citation is usually given as a footnote, and is the most commonly used citation method in Wikipedia articles."

Also above where your "reference" is, the article says "The concrete structure has been restored and a museum has been installed" so you're just repeating something already said in the article.

Gavbadger (talk) 16:58, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Do you want the reference details or not (it's easily done by a User:Dispenser/Reflinks)? You think all references have to have a page number? You think that adding sources which match the material in an article is " just repeating something already said in the article"? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Saying "<ref>[WW2 Langham training dome restoration complete]</ref>" is not a reference.
If you are trying to reference some part of the following section in the article "Langham Dome, which sits on the edge of the former base, is one of only six remaining training domes in the country and was built in 1942. Film of enemy planes was projected onto its walls for target practise. The concrete structure has been restored and a museum has been installed, following grants from English Heritage and the Heritage Lottery Fund", you need to say where you got the information from such as a book, website or anything else that is reliable like a plaque from an appropriate group/company.
The book reference was just an example from a Wikipedia policy. Gavbadger (talk) 17:16, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Do you ever make mistakes? I've now corrected it. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:18, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

George Ewart Evans[edit]

Hi, I'm a bit puzzled that you've thrown out the image of George Ewart Evans that I've loaded with an NFUR - obviously it'll soon be deleted if we don't restore it. I think it a strong, characterful portrait of the man. Is he one of your relatives? If so, perhaps that would explain why you have marked the 'new' image as "own work" despite its also being "from an exhibition at the Museum of East Anglian Life, Stowmarket, Suffolk"? If you don't own the copyright, it'll be a candidate for speedy deletion! If it were my choice, I'd at once restore the old image; otherwise, I'd have thought an NFUR would be needed for the new one. Your thoughts? Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:12, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Have self reverted. Just wishful thinking. Any family connection would count for nothing, wouldn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Ok, many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunate that the NFUR image is of such low quality. You'd think an unmarked image in a permanent public exhibition stand might be amenable to release into the public domain. I added "own work" as I took the photo. Perhaps it's worth formally contacting Evans' estate. The very helpful guides at Abbot's Hall did not seem too bothered. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you![edit]

Roadster 2.5 windmills trimmed.jpg A Tesla Roadster for you!
Thank you for telling the truth and nothing but the truth! QuackGuru (talk) 23:29, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
"'ere mate, I 'ad that David Bowie Knife in the back of me cab last nite. And a bit 'ighly charged he was, an' all, I can tell ya." Armchair editor (talk) 23:33, 24 May 2015 (UTC) ... it seems you may have missed my blatant and pitiless sarcasm, alas ...
I caught him on messing about with that tasty Scot yesterday at 11:00am — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:01, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I suggested adding that to his page, but it was suggested that he had nothing new to say. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:07, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I was pleasantly surprised, and enjoyed listening to him talking so easily with Kirsty Young, although I only enjoyed his first record and the Bach. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:18, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Apparently he founded a website in a fever hotter than a pepper sprout. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:24, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, that is good, but I prefer the version of that song which I have on vinyl with Barton and Nancy. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:33, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm distraught that you found my reaction to your suggestion regarding the entry on that nice Mr Wales discouraging. That was not my intention. My intention was to be encouraging to you and my hope was that others would join in the discussion. I did once add something myself to the entry on JW, and when last I looked it was still there. Nevertheless, it (the page) seems to be on an awful lot of peoples' watchlists, which in turn invites a certain .... caution, when adding stuff. I STILL haven't listened to the Desert Island Discs episode you commended (still haven't really recovered from the death of Roy Plomley). Still might. But if you yourself are even halfway serious about improving the JW Page, I'm pretty sure that there are things you could take from the Young/Wales exchange that could be added as sources for things that currently appear as unsourced assertions in the article itself. Though worded like that, I appreciate it might feel a tad low profile. Anyhow, please don't feel discouraged. There are plenty of wikipedia contributors who should feel more discouraged than they do, but - in my opinion which is the only one to which I have access on the subject - you are not, and never were, one of these. Regards Charles01 (talk) 10:33, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello Charles, Never take Martin too seriously! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:38, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, I'm not even halfway serious about anything. But you probably need to move on, Charles. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Wickedly Welsh Chocolate[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:17, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Do you eat their products with salt? Or spirit? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Seaweed, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Washed down with a tumbler or two from this place — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 07:35, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Invitation![edit]

Wiki Eurovision Heart (Infobox).svg
WikiProject Eurovision invitation for Martinevans123!
Hello, I've noticed that you contributed to an article within our project's scope, and would like to formally invite you to join our team of editors at WikiProject Eurovision, a WikiProject dedicated to the Eurovision family of events. If you would like to join, then please add your name to this list and add the project talk page to your watchlist.
You may also wish to receive our Project's newsletter; if so then please add your name to the mailing list.

Thanks and have a nice day! Wes Mouse | T@lk 13:16, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite. But I'm not a very compliant editor. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:21, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Hehehe, I love the link to "puppet on a string". You cracked me up laughing so much that I wet myself crying. But if you should reconsider, as I know it can take time to think these things through. Although the project is open to complacency and I have tried to push for reform in the project in the past, so that it work to an even higher standard. But that can only be done if the project members give a little love back to the project. (Oh that was fun linking to all those songs. LOL) Wes Mouse | T@lk 13:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Omg!! I've been well and truly out-egged. I've really dropped a clanger. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:38, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
One has got to admit though, that they were cleverly linked. You really have inspired me. Thank you for providing the entertaining laugh though, much appreciated. Wes Mouse | T@lk 13:44, 31 May 2015 (UTC)


You reverted my removal of Wittgenstein's cause of death from the infobox. Please explain why. I'm a newbie, so I looked at the Manual of Style for Infoboxes and it says that infoboxes should summarize only key facts. Most biographical infoboxes on Wikipedia do not include cause of death. Was Wittgenstein's cause of death especially notable? It merits only a single sentence in the entire article and I see no citation that would indicate that his prostate cancer was especially notable. We wouldn't want to clutter up the infobox with favorite color, shoe size, names of pets, etc., so why cause of death? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plantagenarian (talkcontribs) 22:44, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Just so you know, there's nothing to say an infobox on a biography is required at all Plantagenarian. I'm sure Martin (and others) will disagree with me, however ;) CassiantoTalk 22:53, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Just so you know, User:Plantagenarian, I disagree with Cassianto. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Do not ask what the infobox means, ask rather how it is used. EEng (talk) 01:11, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Haha. Maybe we should be all hunting for that beetle. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:42, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I have no very strong feelings. It's just that your removal did not seem, to my mind, justified by your edit summary. Personally I don't regard "cause of death" as comparable with "favorite color, shoe size, names of pets". But I agree that it has little bearing on his work or his notability, perhaps none whatsoever. I will not revert you again. But I would much prefer you to open a discussion thread at the Talk Page. Thanks for looking at MoS Infoboxes. And thanks for taking the time to post here. (Please try and remember to sign your posts). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:56, 3 June 2015 (UTC) p.s. umm, a newbie yes, you've made a total of 12 edits 13 edits in 4 years?
Unlucky for some ... — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 09:08, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

File:In the Land of Grey and Pink.ogg[edit]

Sorry I wasn't clearer- It's only a little thing, but as the page is at GAC, it's something which should be sorted. WP:SAMPLE partly explains how we should interpret WP:NFCC#3 in the case of music samples. Namely, they generally should be no more than 10% of the song's length or 30 seconds (whichever is shorter), and they generally should be no more than 64kbps. This particular sample is fine with regards to length, but its quality is, currently, too high. This can be fixed using Audacity, as explained on the MOS page just linked. Josh Milburn (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I'm sure those massed bootleggers and pirate samplers will be queuing up to rob this sample off Commons. I'll upload a new one as soon as I can. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:03, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm not very technical - how does 22.05KHz compare with 64kbps? Should all samples have rates labelled in kbps instead of Khz? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Currently, the sample is 154 kbps. You can see it right underneath the player (where the actual image would be shown if this was an image upload). I don't know if/how KHz compares to kbps, but I'm not sure why it matters? Josh Milburn (talk) 23:13, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
I was suggesting the template ought to express the limit in kbps. That might be clearer? Martinevans123 (talk) 06:47, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
And why is this "generally should be no more than 64kbps"? What are the exceptions? If it were a hard limit, then uploading above that limit ought to be disabled by the upload wizard, with an appropriate error message? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:46, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


How would you like to earn a QPQ credit? Template:Did you know nominations/Charles R. Apted EEng (talk) 07:15, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I might give it a go when I have worked out what the hook means. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:50, 12 June 2015 (UTC) Does that credit come with PPI?
... now you see what happens if you put DYK review requests on my Talk page! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:54, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

DYK preps/queues[edit]

It's probably escaped your attention but I think it's safe to say that I've worked on the content and presentation of the linked articles in just about every DYK hook for the past I-don't-know-how-long. But of course that's irrelevant to some. And who said being mediocre was bad? It's better than fucking crap. It's better than just about half of things after all... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:11, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Goodness me, after all these long months, Rambler! Talk of the devil and all that..... Yes, my attention span is rather low, as you probably know. And no, I-don't-know-how-long either, I'm afraid. But almost every DYK hook does sound incredibly impressive. You have my every sympathy. I'm hoping, one day, to raise the standard of my own pathetic contributions from "fucking crap" to the heady heights of "mediocre". In fact, I'm hoping there's a "Barnstar of Mediocrity" on offer (hint, hint). But thanks for dropping by and lightening the tone so. Gosh Rambler, you are a card! Tee-hee. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:02, 13 June 2015 (UTC) ... and if you do come again, make sure you don't bring that moron EEng with you.
I didn't expect anything more, but sometimes presenting just a very select part of the story as some kind of de facto evidence of non-participation in a process is clearly disingenuous. Have a great day, glad to see the Belgians took one hell of a beating. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:08, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
"Ha, ha, ha... and just look at the Belgians!!" Shame they had to bail out of the Championship, really: [48] Martinevans123 (talk) 17:15, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it was a knockout, I have high hopes to see three home nations at Euro 2016 right now. There is only one Yorkshire, our Geoff can testify to that. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
"Eh what, lad? linking articles in just about every DYK hook for the past I-don't-know-how-long? You were LUCKY!" -- Gauntanamo Boycott (talk) 17:25, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Thought I should look it up in the Guide to becoming an expert. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:06, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
I guess there are many good hookers, but only a few brilliant ones. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:10, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
being the single one or the relatively few of the kind. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:50, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

There is a discussion you may (or may not!) be interested in joining[edit]

Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Eurofighter Typhoon 2 regards Mztourist (talk) 04:26, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Wow, another one already! I have skimmed over it, but I am loath to make any detailed input. Your analysis seems perfectly fair. It's a bit like max speed all over again. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:18, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

On Kay Burley[edit]

My most recent edit wasn't correcting NPOV persay, but I just added it into the edit summary anyway - fast paced edit. I believe that my edit was more neutral anyway, as the nature of her interview has already been established in the section, so it makes sense to move onto the next topic without lingering on the aggression in the interview. Wondering about your thoughts. ~NottNott ( -) 15:26, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

That HuffPo source is pretty unforgiving. It says ".. cringe-inducing interview ... grilled by the Sky News anchor ... Burley gave Varney short shrift as he attempted to answer". Maybe other sources are kinder? In which case they could be used. I chose the word "assertive" thinking that was actually toning down from "aggressive". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:33, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Check out my most recent edit - I've added a more toned-down source. Tell me what you think. ~NottNott ( -) 15:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Fine by me. Personally, I'd see no harm in re-adding the Huff Po source in support. Thanks for taking the time to discuss. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Top Gear[edit]

Re your question, it's the BBC. Is there any question? Personally I think Top Gear will end up like Brainiac: Science Abuse after Vic Reeves (who told him he was funny?) replaced Richard Hammond. I'm not sure it will last as long though. --AussieLegend () 18:58, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Are they really aiming for an audience of seven year-olds? In my view Dale Winton would have been a better choice. Those trolleys are quite tough, you know! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm from Australia so I really don't know who Dale Winton is. I've seen Chris Evans though and he's clearly not right for the job. Personally, I think this bloke is the only one right for the job. --AussieLegend () 19:17, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, you lucky chap. In fact here's the dream team all on one sofa But, in that case, it could even have been your dashing compatriot. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:28, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


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Yes alright, I admit it, I am using someone else's gadgets or user scripts, It's a fair cop guv'nor. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Another clear and simply communication from WMF. EEng (talk) 23:42, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Pure and Simple? "I've been walking round in a daze!" pop heaven!! clap those hand's y'all!! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC) ... note: "at the time the fastest selling debut single of all time in the UK... "

That edit summary....[edit]

Bonne Chance, that was gold. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:52, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Not sure he'd really appreciate the cuisine. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 19 June 2015 (UTC)


Thank you for the kind words. I shall strive to do my best with the mop and bucket. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:12, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

There is often a perception of never the twain about "admins" and "content editors", usually quite misplaced. But I do hope we don't "lose" a good editor. I sometimes think adminship should be strictly fixed term. My very best wishes and good luck. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:18, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
We shall see...I will be easing into my new role over the next few days. I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to continue at least some of my larger-scale editing, as it's fairly easy to fit into the cracks of my day. Regardless, as of now I'm planning on a fixed-term adminship myself...I don't see myself spending longer than two years in the role, tops, honestly. But again...we shall see. I'm in complete terra incognita now. Just waiting for the dragons to show up. :-) --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:23, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
I hope you can enjoy the crack, while it lasts, and I hope we don't see too many cracks appearing. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
Pssh. I'm from Washington, DC. We had our own issues with crack, way back when. It don't scare me none.--Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 00:43, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
... or even
"Plumber's crack"
a plumber butt or plumber's crack (Canadian, Australian and American English) and builder's bum (British English). Wishing you the best of good luck over/with the next "two years". — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 08:41, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Maybe we'll see an admin crackdown. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:12, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Edit summary[edit]

This was a very stupid edit summary. Passers-by are likely to misconstrue it as racist. For myself, as I have already said, I think Indonesian schoolchildren are as bright as any others. DuncanHill (talk) 23:14, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your warm note of appreciation. I look forward to your non-racist edit summaries. I expect those highly intelligent Indonesian and Korean school kids, who are just passing by, are ripping up their Cornish primers in disgust, even as we speak. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:22, 27 June 2015 (UTC) I'm always careful to use an edit summary in case you think "what I'm saying is crap." [49]

Note to self[edit]

Adoring crowds await Martin's return from Cythera.

I need to "stop all thoughts of revenge". Thanks for all the kind copyvio advice. See you in a week , then. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:19, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Bon voyage! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 13:21, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
How kind. I was really hoping to save someone "from really terrible trouble, I think you know what sort I mean." Oh well. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:24, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
< waves handkerchief > Softlavender (talk) 23:42, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
I liked your sigh.
Sir John Tenniel's illustration of the Caterpillar for Lewis Carroll's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland is noted for its ambiguous central figure, whose head can be viewed as being a human male's face with a pointed nose and pointy chin or being the head end of an actual caterpillar, with the first two right "true" legs visible.

"And do you see its long nose and chin? At least, they look exactly like a nose and chin, that is don't they? But they really are two of its legs. You know a Caterpillar has got quantities of legs: you can see more of them, further down." Carroll, Lewis. The Nursery "Alice". Dover Publications (1966), p 27. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 06:58, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
You have continued with this far too long; I appreciate your feelings have been ruffled, for which I am sorry. But I didn't get where I am today by waffling on about caterpillars. Take the afternoon off! "CJ" (talk) 08:57, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
"Middle age"? ... I should be so lucky!— Victor Meldrew (talk) — 11:09, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
"I don't believe it!" Martinevans123 (talk) 15:35, 5 July 2015 (UTC)